labs, but as the inquiry is ready at times, but how into current to rise, america's position when it comes to the war in gaza. yeah, that is a very delicate position for the us. because uh, as a democrats, i mean, uh, biden's, you know, domestic politics. it is primarily a more inclined toward immediacy expire, but as we know that, you know, there's also, you know, a, you say a low b and also, you know, of things like that. the right that, that probably lead me that kind of a policy option by the us. but again, i think the, as we'll find, you know, a win win solution for this sale of losing on that particular piece by a, for the money by the end date. but at the same time, but at the same time, feel at here to, to you know, what, the sale the concerns on, on their defense. so i think it will be more important especially to even the back

in the frame bur. uh there will be, uh, you know, us election because it is a section that mike pointed it, oh we, we don't really know. right. but, but now there is a boeing functioning the most of the side about the like of respond by the bite and suddenly satiating the guiding through the somebody done got us will for you in gets us. well, i think a base domestic concern was probably, uh provide a more uh information for you as to, to, to find a ground solution a place to make immediately his wife, but not probably the permanent but. yeah it's, it's a, it's a shame a, but i'm going to have to leave of that. and thank you very much for joining us here on, on the safe on politics, but 5. ok, pleasure. so thanks again. well, that's all for me for today. otherwise, it's great to have your company, my colleagues assess against that. i will be with you at the top of the video,

a very good the, the republicans are facing another political headache on the way because the overturning of robi weight this time involving in vitro fertilization procedures. this could spell disaster for the party heading into the 2024 election. i'm sure i know he's in on this edition of 360 view, we're going to look at whether the algebra i'm a supreme court ruling has anything to do with a woman's rights and abortion. and why this has become a potentially damaging issue with the republican party and the female that let's get started. the

it's a presidential election year, which means every daily headline has a good chance of becoming a political weapon use by one party to try and land devastating blows in the public relations boxing right. now this latest could not have been more perfectly written by the democrats and comes from the very read state of alabama. after the state supreme court ruled, frozen embryos are vaguely children. and the destruction of embryos constitutes a crime under the states wrongful death of a minor law, a statute which dates back to 1872, and a part of the anti abortion language in the state constitution. now the back story in this case is very important. even though it's often conveniently left out by the mainstream media, the embryos were accidentally destroyed when a patient wandered into the cryogenic nursery, were frozen embryos were stored now through an unsecure door. this patient was able

to enter the lab and removed several trays of embryos. but suffered freeze, burned to the hand from the cold liquid nitrogen, and dropped those embryos on the ground. destroying them. 3 families joined together, sue, but their case went all the way up to the alabama supreme court following a series of losses in the states for courts. now, following this rule in the university of alabama at birmingham, their health system announced it was halting, its ivy of procedures immediately over fear of loss. susan prosecutions. now it's the largest hospital in the state and the 8th, the largest in the nation. now other health care providers in alabama are likely and also did follow suit. democrats are doing everything they can to take this onto the presidential campaign trail and use it as a weapon against republican candidates who are running for office. and this starts at the top of the ticket. would you be present or candid? and donald trump 1st spoke about it during

a rally and south carolina. we want to make it easier for mothers and fathers that have babies not harder that includes supporting the availability of fertility treatments like ivy f in every state in america. now just as j, michel wrote, in his opinion, these type of policy focused arguments belong before the legislature. not this court is not the role of the court to craft a new limitation based on our own view of what is or is not wise public policy. no response to the significant backlash. lawmakers and both chambers of the alabama legislature have filed and past bills to clarify the state law related to embryos created v i v. yes, the governor has signed those into law but hasn't damage already been done to republicans. so i want to discuss with our panel, let's bring them it. steve afterwards from the millcreek podcast and jesse k, robinson is a doctoral student and health education and behavioral studies at teacher's college,

columbia university, joseph professor and birth of post partum. to a welcome to both of you to the show. i appreciate you come in. i'll be sitting patch. you mean you're thank you, jesse. i want to start with you 1st. do you think it's understandable for i v f clinics to hold their work? because of this alabama supreme court ruling, well, i think they shouldn't be holding their work. but i do think that if they want to protect themselves and not face criminal charges, you know, they do need to sort of assess what's going on with the law before they before they service and your clients will, steve, here was, were my computer and kind of was because somehow this has been turned into an abortion issue, not necessarily a product of protection to for, to the rights issues. so is there not a difference between fertility clinics which are in the business of making babies and how was this pulled into the roe vs wade and abortion clinics,

which are in place to terminate those pregnancies to yeah, it's a non force there by, by the republicans um, the speaker mike johnson was on cbs and he was given a very easy question. if you believe like, begins at conception is idea burner. i'm done. and of course he comes back and says it's something we have to grapple with. what is lost in the hyperbole and all the huffing and puffing with that is that this bill in this law in alabama, it goes back to 1872 before there was such thing as i b f called the wrongful death of a minor rack. and so now all of a sudden national democrats and dc are saying that the exact same thing is roe vs wade. and we need to make sure that the babies are not allowed to not be killed. and so it's crazy. only alabama and tennessee are even dealing with this right now, and yes, it happens to be an election year. so i don't blame anybody for doing this. that's

what politics is. but man, is it blowing out of proportion? and that's my question, because definitely what i'm worried about is i v f and a lot of fertility treatments because it is such a sensitive issues doesn't have very much protected. there's not many laws or regulations to monitor what is going on in these facilities. why isn't anyone talking about how this all started and kind of the lack of security or protocols around i vs, and the protection of the embryos that are produced? yeah, i think that it's i think people get frustrated when we start conflating things i think, particularly during an election years, people will take pieces and snippets of conversations that really for their, their agenda. i do think it is part of the same conversation when we talk about reproductive rates. so i do want to say 1st that i think when people talk about reproductive rates and they talk about abortion, the narrative is always that people want to have abortions. and the people are being forced to have abortions. and that's not what reproductive rights is about.

it's about choice. choice is to either be a parent or not be a parent. so i think it's really important that we're not making this sort of bankrupted conversation about, you know, people wanting to have abortions, reproductive rights is about the ability to have the choice, the resources to be able to safely bring babies to term or to terminate pregnancies for whatever reason, the birth thing, the person would be giving birth, it has. now in terms of security, i think it's absolutely necessary to secure medical facilities that are in the process of creating life for people who really want to have children. and so, you know, often times it isn't until we have the incidents like the one we had with this person went in and wandered in and harmed. you know, this, this, this process, the facility that laws easily come into play. so, you know,

fortunately we now are able to have a conversation about how to secure embryos and the facilities that are housing them . so the people who truly want to have children can do that in a way that is uninterrupted. well, to death is quite the stephen alabama of the law that was passed and what the governor actually signing the law has nothing to do is actually putting in security into these facilities. basically it just says that the clinics will not be prosecuted for any sort of a crime based on what they're doing to have we already missed the conversation. have we already missed this opportunity as well? um no, because it's one state and they obviously are very confused and are scrambling to change it. but what we're right. so you haven't, it was a very interesting conversation about personally and what a, you know, chicken before the a right is a on, for life, a living in storage that's frozen. that's there for the in detroit verbalization couple to be able to come back and get some more of their own eggs if they wanted

to do ad words. sift through genetically, the ones that are flawed and then destroyed them. is that showing your child does that murder? and the answer i don't think is yes, because even the supreme court has said that in a thing and us from are not a child or a person until they become fertilize. and then we start talking about, is it conception? is it 3 months since a liability is it's, you know, god forbid that's after the baby has been born and, and all the force and talk that we dealt with. but in tennessee where i am, we have laws against, for some of the country. and the answer is no on any of that. and even they don't 80 cell. otherwise, every time i'm going to go through their natural cycle, maybe murder, right? or, you know, direct. but it clearly is an extraordinary determination that in vitro 8 cell, microscopic embryos are now considered people until they figure that out and say no

further lives. diggs are people at construction, but it's been part of this longstanding. when does life begin? and that conception analysis even before that. so there you have, well, just say you actually as we are doing, you deliver babies every single day. so i know that you obviously, your, your career is based on protecting life and, and producing life. when you look at this, when you see this, do you feel like that there should be more of a separation between the 2 issues than what's being done? or as others say, is considering shutting down their ivy of clinics and research without state because their states don't have laws. is that thing a little dramatic? and i think that, you know, as you said, i think we're really comes around the idea of personhood. and i think that we, we will until i get science comes to some definitive answer. but i mean, science actually has, it's not, it's not a person until these are,

are fertilized. but i do think that the conversation continues to be around choice and whether or not people want to bring babies to term. i do think that any facility that is assisting people with having children should be protected . there should be absolute laws that protect for so and i think that they should be that should be in place for any medical facility that is in the process of helping people, whether they want to have children or not. and whether it's a, a clinic that performs abortions or whether it's a facility that is in the process of, you know, helping people fertilize x. and so, you know, we can have that conversation. we can have the conversation about personhood, you know, these are frozen embryos. if they're people, we wouldn't breeze people as well. that's the thing. there's thousands of laws already on the books right now. you would think that there would have been something in the sector there hasn't. and unfortunately,

i think with this being politics, we've already moved it over to the fact that we might not actually get accurate laws. thank you, steve and jesse for this discussion and we're going to continue it because after the break, our discussions gonna focus on the political weapon to zation of this alabama supreme court ruling and what it means for the campaign. true. the welcome back. you know, the last thing republicans want to talk about this year is anything which has to do with abortion is a feel it deters female voters. but now because of this ruling in alabama,

this has been a major, ongoing headline in almost every media outlet. with very little pushback from even the conservative news outlets. so if i was really the best policy, well, let us ask our panel, steve abberley woods from the mill creek podcast, and dusty k robinson, health professor do, and media analysts. thank you so much for joining me on this. you know, this has to happen in alabama almost immediately. when the problem arose, the republican house and senate, the state legislature, passed a bill and it was almost signed immediately by the governor, the republican governor, k i v. i mean, that was the quickest. i've ever seen anything move in politics mainly i think because republicans realize this is a problem if they did not take care of it immediately. so i'm going to start with you on this, steve. what role do you think partisan politics is playing and all of this? oh, absolutely. i mean they are all very freight of what you just said, getting those headlines that say, oh my gosh, here we are. here we go again. but, you know, at the trial court, what you described, describe the person dropping all the eggs on the ground. it was determined that the

trial judge said, the embryos that exist in vitro are not people or children for the purpose of the wrongful death of a minor act. and therefore there was no claim that the couple could bring under that act. well, they appealed that the decision to the state supreme court highest and the state they disagreed. and that still said that the wrongful death of a minor act does apply. here's a quote from it to all unborn children without limitation. and that includes unborn children who are not located in nutro at the time they are killed. sounds like to just kind of didn't pay close attention. and then of course they, they got got into it. we believe that each human being from the moment of conception is made in the image of god, created by him to reflect his light. this is a, if the people of alabama took that what was spoken of the prophet jeremiah and applied it to every on one person in the state. carving out an exception for the people in this case, small as they were,

would be unacceptable to the people of the states who have required us to treat every human being in accordance with the fear of a holy god. make them in his image. well, that play right into the presses of war on christian nationalism and sure you go national news around the world within the heart. absolutely. i think the judge did not actually help the case. obviously the very religious man, he felt like he was doing this is obviously very pro life and alabama. you can be pro life instead of i said on the beach on the bench. but the fact that he went that far, probably actually did not help the argument for outside of alabama dessie, you know, elizabeth war and actually tweeted this out. she got to put it all together. republicans opposition to ideas is terrified. it makes me furious, but it should surprise anyone there also coming for medication, abortion, and birth of pro and even prenatal care. but make no mistake, we will fight them every step of the way. here's the thing is, is really true about republicans. our public is anti i vs. are they anti fatality? are they anti even, you know,

any of the prescription to preventative medicines or is this just a great example of an opportune moment in gas fighting everything? i think that this is a larger conversation about reproductive rates. and so i think that there are many things that are inclusive of reproductive right. but, you know, is, are a republicans against idea of, i don't know. i don't know. i think that there are many people who are speaking i'm, you know, the half of that. i just, you know, an interview with a to reveal and he had no idea what was, you know, what it was. yeah, we need more children. that insightful ideas is the, you know, the process of trying to add children and it wasn't even clear on what it is. and i think that unfortunately, we have a lot of people in power. mostly men mostly says gender white hetero land who are making decisions about fertility, about birth. and i'm not saying that the should not, but i am seeing that there are

a lot of people who are not informed about the full breadth of the scope of reproduction. and they need to be more informed about what it is. and so if you don't make informed decisions, then you have a lot of this fall out. well, i think a lot of people are very confused unless you've actually gone through it or had somebody close to it. it's gone through the process of this or any other fertility treatments. they don't necessarily understand what is involved with this. because steve, prior, but part of the story, i think democrats didn't even mention idea if it was nothing that they you ever saw and they're talking points now it's their number one. and it's basically in regards to the supreme court, reversing. roe vs wade and it triggers right into abortion. why is this? and once again, is it really fair to the actual people that are having to deal with the subject in the situation that the politicians have made this such a hot button issue for them to debate? so yeah, i don't think the us supreme court would agree that frozen embryos enjoying the same rights as children do you know, speaker the house mike johnson is

a devout christian. he's from louisiana as, as an economy buried on the supreme court. trump was the 1st president to attend the marked for life and supported by students for life. and they held him to his homage, overturn roe? and he put 3 judges up there that actually did it with clarence thomas and illegal . and thomas has been there for this long time and, and, and, you know, finding didn't try to prevent that. so it's going to always be an issue. but bottom line is, trump said, just today i, b, f is important and our great republican party will always be with you in your quest for the ultimate joy in life, which is obviously having children. so i think when everybody cools down and realize this idea is not abortion, it is not showing the unborn or the innocent children that planned parenthood. it's been known to do for all these many years, or that margaret sanger was a big proponent of etc, etc. we'll come down and say, wait a minute, we remember this is actually pro life. we are using

a scientifically proven method of creating children not destroying them. and if the eggs fall on the ground or are frozen or destroyed after not use that isn't murder, no one's going to jump for that. definitely when you watch these politicians makes comments like what you're saying. what does that say to you as a female? do you actually as a woman d and who like said your career as a part of it? do you feel almost like you're being use or that that the future, these babies, whether they're born or not, are being used basically to promote a political candidate. i do think so, i think that you know, any one who or any entity that sits within the marginalized space, whether you are a person of color or woman. busy we're or you know, want you to habitable sheila or wants you to bring life? i think all of those marginalized entities are brought into. busy conversations

largely for the benefit of carrying favoring those communities. a tapping into fears. i think it happens on both sides. definitely. and that sort of will save. i have to ask you, if you can give your advice right now you've, you've mentioned obviously the, the house, republican leader. what would be your advice for republicans right now that are having to handle this issue? a lot of them are to the just are ignored not to say anything to not get out there and speak on of it. a lot of are saying yes, hello, i'm pro life but not going into details. are republicans handling this issue correctly and what would your advice be? i don't think there messaging it correctly because for some reason everybody is willing to accept the fact that this is republican males who are willing to intervene in a woman's right to choose and all this type of thing. when that is not at all what this is, if anything, it's a couple's right to choose to try to have a healthy child that they clean. otherwise, that's a good thing. we believe in that as christians and republicans and americans and

people who believe in life. so they actually own the issue, but it's so message incorrectly because i told you that 1875 won alabama screwed this all up in alabama. veterans use their portion band and 2019000 before dobs. and it wasn't coming into force because it was unconstitutional at the time. but as soon as that did trigger statements, tennessee where we have the strictest of anti abortion laws in the country. we've also said i'd be f doesn't apply to this. and our attorney general has said that there was an amendment i was on the table, the just got voted down to the subcommittee yesterday. that basically tried to add medications and treatments and products to this. and we basically said it's not necessarily because i v f is not on the table. we're not any good at. this is not a think so it's in the political arena. it's an election year. it's going to be a crazy us versus them and versus women. everybody versus everybody election, i think i'm sad to say,

and this is just the 1st round in that battle and they did not have good news on the left. and so this is their opportunity to start steering women to believe those republicans are coming for your children. and on that, no, that's it. you know, it, we talk about right now. what's going on with, with children and the idea of whether it's for, if it, for some of personhood is actually be getting an embryo stage. or if it's actually after it's been, it's been fertilized. that's the coverage of having you point out. sciences said it does not begin at that embryos stage. but what would you say to those parents right now? a lot of them that might have already had their embryos in storage or thinking of doing ives, should they be worried right now they should there be concern and it is. it also depends on what state you live it. i think it depends of what state you live in. i think there are legal and emotional and moral things coming into play here and do think that is a couple is interested. what does that couple is head room or, or clear, it doesn't matter if they're interested in having children, and they're,

they've lost that opportunity because of some negligence. i do think that they have a case for a negligence definitely. but again, this comes around choice. i do think that when we are in this political space, many things get completed. i don't believe that. um, you know, there is clarity one on when life begins or, or i don't think there is clarity on, you know, what, what chance people are standing in. i think that because abortion and choice has been so on attack. i think that any time we talk about and production any sees it is a hot button issue in either side is going to use whatever the conversation is to parse out some certain pieces that will for their agenda. well, it's definitely an agenda that's going to continue discussion. i want to thank you so much for joining me. jessica robinson and steve adverts from millcreek,

i appreciate both of your both of your intellect. yeah. sometimes i despise election years because when a problem in america becomes a political weapon, i mean here is going to be a politician who gains something while the person are group, most affected, continues to be at a loss. opportunity is a very, very, very sensitive issue. and one that great scientific advances have been made. however, to a certain extent, the scientific advances have allowed mankind in some cases to play god. this can also come with the risk a risk which can produce the reward of life for parents who might not have thought that was even possible. but when laws and regulations are not put in place to minimize the potential risk of something going wrong, or in this case, the actual loss of life and opportunity for life. for 3 sets, a very hopeful parents. then the ability to recreate an ad only done by the divine

is destroyed by human error. this is a conversation we should, we haven't got america. but sadly, because of the current state of politics today, the concept of creating the opportunity for life is being completely corrupted by be allowed to be or twined with the ability to the ends life. now i'm going to mit i was wrong because i never thought i would see roe vs wade the reverse america. and the decision on when a woman could have an abortion in each state, was going to be left up to the individual state legislators to decide the initial outcome of roe vs wade was such an iconic pillar of the left pro choice argument. never did. i think they would be able to find a court pack of judges willing to reverse it. donald j trump, he continues to say the supreme court in united states decision was the top achievement of his presidency. and those on the right overwhelmingly agree because of how it can continue to play into the democrats hands and allow the issue of for

280 and abortion rights to merge. they are not only sabotaging their chances of attracting independent female voters in this upcoming november election, but also allowing a disservice to those families depending on the continued advance its infertility treatment to help them conceive a child in the future. i'm starting now. here's. thank you for watching the 360 the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00]

the position i was suggesting fell great. i was suggesting that we send americans and the bridges on the drain and put on your bill. is us on obama most move dining probably now. now that seems that a strong when you see it, all the youngest will tell you that it will save you from us. the processing in the middle of it is what i need to file a possibility. and this was always does. when this one is known as the guidelines source or cit, emotional around noon, it may be, you know, a lot less radioactive didn't something this active uranium, but still it's radioactive, as toxins, as the kid killed the laptop, you want me to go and see. so either of us here, again, let's see, i could see is going good. i don't know those things with them. all. it was suggesting we farm fell great bill colors.

what they were just the each the so we know by whose hands this atrocity was committed against russia and its people we're interested in who forwarded. describe as president, prior to the says the west to rush to push its narrative about the deadly attack. and most so raises many questions. so shell, but it hasn't come out of the united states through various channels. he's trying to convince speed, satellites, and other countries that, according to their intelligence, there is allegedly known in the most co terrorist attack. why did that? did always try to go deep clean after committing the crime and who was waiting for