we're, we're starting to see a potential turnaround in the way that people think about unions in labor and america. and the question is whether the labor movement itself, which is kind of been rendered weak over all these decades of decline can take advantage of this moment. so if the people are in the united states are watching this and want to form a trade union in a private sector business, tell me what obstacles are gonna they're gonna come up against to prevent them from organizing their labor. well, the 1st obstacle is that the labor laws in america make it very easy for employers to retaliate against workers for tried to form unions. even though it is technically illegal for employers to retaliate for, organize, and activity. the penalties for doing that are almost non existent, and so big employers know that it's actually in their interest to do things like fire workers who try to organize to intimidate workers who try to organize those

tactics. come with such small penalties that companies are really economically incentivized to crack down on unions and pursue union busting so that that's the 1st obstacle that workers have to encounter. and the other obstacle really is, is again, the weakness of organized labor itself, all of those decades of decline had made it very hard for workers to do simple and basic things like get in contact with the union. are organizer, find the union that is willing to put the resources behind them to pursue a successful organizing campaign, to fight against employers that already investing. so on both sides, workers are, workers are dealing with obstacles, both of the company being able to step on their necks and then trying to find the union that, that is willing to help them out and back them in their struggle. the a, f, l. c. i o in the book, you call them a media greenhouse loving for it's known around the world. that organization is

something that is promoted death, squads and torture, although across latin america and in the global south, tell me what the f l c i o is. first of all, because many people might recognize it as a cut out of the intelligence agencies. how, how it's supposed to help trade shooting and said, work is around the world, but actually as being performing a different role. as i said, they have also is a, is the largest federation of unions and united states of america. 60 unions. it has around, i believe, $13000000.00 total members. so it is not a union itself, but it is a, it is a labor federation, the biggest, the most powerful labor federation. america, as you mentioned, um, throughout the history of the esso, it has been played by a lot of problems, not the least of which are some of his foreign policy foreign policy positions that is taken over many years. it's also, it's also historically been

a fairly conservative labor federation is always falling on the conservative spectrum of labor history. but the fact remains that when you look at organize labor in america for better or worse, the f o c o is the organization that sits at the center that most union members in america are technically members of the f, l. c. o. and so when you think of the starting point to build a stronger labor moving in america, it is going to start inside the f o c o like it or not because that is the organization that exists. that is the table that all or most of the biggest shootings in america are sitting around. so it's a, it's an organization that has a lot of potential um, domestically at least 2 to be the place that helps to rebuild the labor moving in america. but it has always suffered from conservatism and a little bit of a lack of ambition and a lack of a vision. you called a mediocre and a loving yeah. bomb and you know, this statement i'm 3 gives you from the middle east,

on the genocide in the middle east. was they recommended a uh, negotiated seats where they would even clear enough on like many of the trade unions about what's happening here in the middle east. to coal for a prophecies fire and goes yeah, i mean it's, it's always going to probably be disappointing to look to the half of seo for more leadership is the time due of ownership. it's not something new, like many unions are going their separate ways and they have done, haven't they, when they're a more conservative elements in, in the organized labor that it preventing them fight for their rights? yeah, there have been instances in labor history when the more progressive unions and unions that really want to pursue, organizing have split off from the f l. c. o. it happened early in the 20th century when they formed the c i o. and it happened again in, in the late 20th century when they sent article isn't all changed when all those instances where unions that wanted to pursue big industrial organizing. and they

were frustrated by the f l. zero's reluctance to do that. so it's always, it's always been the same thing with apple c o. however, abolishing it, the problem is if you abolish it, you just have to rebuild it again from the ground up. so i would like to see it taken over and used as, as a tool for good rather than abolished. so tell me about sarah nelson. i know in the reagan the error breaking the pilot's union was a major part of ronald reagan in the eighty's to forged the new liberal will be now exist in. and i also dennis considered to be able to see our interview with me as might be going for congress, a game, talk about all and the various ways attempts are made to destroy political power. that helps work is why is there in else is that you here for you? in the book, a certain nelson is the head of the association of flight attendance, which is the, the union for flight attendance, the united states. she is sort of the running central figure in my book. she's a very passionate progressive firey, labor leader that i've always admired as

a labor journalist. one is 1st union leaders that, that i ever interview, that i felt like really grasp the scale of the problems that we were faces in america. and had the sort of drive in the ambition to try to fix those problems. she is a great progressive, she's an ally of bernie sanders. she is one of the most prominent left wing labor leaders. and in the book i sort of follow her struggle of how and whether to become a leader of the larger labor movement and some of the challenges with trying to pull together leadership in a move that is so disparate and divided politically and otherwise. so there have been some successful strikes recent vehicles, these really make the big headlines ones at the amazon and then starbucks, which actually is being the subject of boycotts in asia or over its relationship with the, with israel. um how, how did, how did the starbucks strikes succeed

a starbucks has been a very. 2 inspirational organizing campaign started a couple of years ago and they decided to, to unionize one story to time and they've ended, they have successfully nice 400 stores now. across america. starbucks workers campaign has very grassroots campaign, very worker driven a lot of young, ideologically motivated workers at the stores who's done a lot of the work themselves to spread this organizing campaign. and at the same time, the billionaire founders, starbucks, our shoals, i radically was born. so sorry, i'm actually interviewed. oh yeah. yeah. yeah. he, i rightly was going to be hillary clinton stories for labor secretary and now he's the, he's the most notorious union bus or in the united states of america. but recently they did, in fact get starbucks to agree to come to the table and negotiate

a contract with that union. so they, they have um, they have a light at the end of the tunnel for that campaign. and it's been very successful. and as you mentioned, they were, they were on the forefront of calling forest east fire and gaza of something that spread through a lot of other unit as well. and we'll do now and i'll stop you there. well, from the old or the new books, i am a power inequality. and the struggle with this sort of labor up to this break, the get will have chevy image shows the patient unix. but then you put the well in just the coupled or is it pretty sure it, but if you're doing your task, but then you would just give them a long shot, the beloved or something. so that should probably just so that way, you know, review them step is just about a little bit slow. so i'm looking for the concept. if only is a visual i'm losing in. but i do have to make sure that all of the,

of little really so frustrated with as much it's gonna get to play the show you a level may assist you mind when you're doing good insurance and which the technology you can throwing up at the let's just sponsor suspicious go out. i don't even want for them to go where you need the course to just go in and put in the c. it is done with this or fix it on this was was if the control so sort of the, the hello and welcome defrost of full or peer. we discuss and we'll in the i'm not sure come on this as they didn't show it, but this thing is let me ask him that way. for me is the non smoker in your mind

restored in an empty monday. so stuff which didn't show up by a demo print that issue and you're still, or do i try to come up with one of our that's not i was made up of the trailer span that we can partner. so i, this is a good you're, you're poor. 2 which is what i want to move over here, but as of now it's particularly like cut them around quite inflate and well this is crazy. nice not aggressive. is it? absolutely. i'd rather proof of an issue with the much just isn't good. that the so the 3 of us and you can leave the alone. i'm not very good. feel interest

worse than you're going you. i much thought sure thing. what went out so anyways anyway, high speeds are still going. yes. sort of the, [000:00:00;00] the only one main thing is important for nonsense and internationally speaking that is, a nation's percept. uh, allowed to do anything, all the mazda races, and then you have the mine and agents who are the slaves. americans, rock, obama and others have had a concept of american exceptionalism. international law exist as long as it serves the american interest. if it doesn't,

that doesn't exist by turning those russians into this dangerous boy, a man that wants to take over the world. that was the culture of strategy. so some of the vehicle in your english v i n b, i not finished it, often. zip on in tablet block. nato said it's ours. we move east. the reason us, hey jim, it is dangerous. is it the by the sovereignty of the countries, the exceptionalism that america uses and its international war planning is one of the greatest threats to the populations of different nations. of nature, what is founded shareholders in the united states and elsewhere in large arms companies would lose millions of millions or is business businesses good? and that is the reality of what we're facing, which especially the

the welcome back to going under grant. i was still here with hamilton, illinois through the new book, the how much the power and the quality and the struggle for the soul of a but we were talking about successes uh, as regards uh say starbucks. but all these unions of backing joe biden, this november, that includes uh, obviously the f l c i o f t a f, a c m i a f t. and then you people can look these up as all these acronyms. it was difficult enough. i think the where he got you a w shop flow of different numbers. so i think the 1st thing they need to do is make the unions easier to easier to understand like corporate logo is perhaps, why is it they back, joe biden? biden's choice of a federal reserve boss, jerome powell, and obviously he was there before, says it is high wage growth. does the problem in the united states. that's why inflation is there, even for his magazine. is saying that's a bit harsh. is actually the ruge of all evil,

high wage growth. do you think many of these union workers are seeing high wage growth and then blaming themselves because of biden's, the fed boss as well. i, you know, the united states of america is a 2 party system and, and this is always been a challenge that face, organized labor in america. is that there is a big incentive for the democratic party to take unions for granted because of the, the republican party is a party that wants to essentially abolish unions altogether and staff out all organized labor power. and so the choice is always been the democrats because the other choice is so bad at the same time, of course, biden, who has been relatively pro union, still has the drawbacks, you know, as a, as a, as a president, even as far as labor is concerned, you mentioned the railroad strike and other issues. so the question, because the pro union, when enacting legislation against a powerful, excuse me and just as you said, it's a, it's a very low bar to cause all around the world buttons. foreign policy is being

acting arguably against unionizing. organize labor in foreign policy. right? i mean, because the question for unions is how do you exert influence on joe biden? because trump is a non starter you, trump is trump, is a guy who was kicked out of his own union for being a scab. i mean, he is completely, as i union, so there is no other choice for buy them at the same time. union cannot sit back and allow by the democratic party to take them for granted. so they have to figure out how to apply pressure and how to influence vitamin the right direction. so 3rd party candidates of never being an issue. we had cornell west on this row. you know, there are these other candidates. trade unions will just be looking to the powerful to bestow their privileges to workers rather than seeking out 3rd party candidates even though for weekly leaks. we know how hillary clinton say destroyed by nissan does, is chance of ever becoming president by using the dnc against a candidate like scientists. i think uh, bernie sanders, it was, it was

a candidate within the democratic party would have been a great candidate for labor and had a lot of labor backing and was probably the most pro labor candidate that, that i've seen in my lifetime, who also had a viable chance of winning the democratic nomination. the problem again with 3rd party candidates, the united states of america is that unless they have a viable chance of winning, all you do is cut down a support to, to the candidate closest to your side. so there's, there's problems with the design of the american electoral system that make it very hard for 3rd party candidates to be viable. sources of power for you just to support is another problem. but given biden's a valid choice for keynesian militarism growth in the us economy depends on the proxy war through ukraine, on sending billions of dollars of worth of weapons to israel, to kill in gaza. the necessarily, the big trade unions are going to be representing the weapons industry and the

military industrial complex that any moral person wants to avoid and destroy in favor of a piece making infrastructure investor investment as well. this has certainly been a perpetual problem in the united states of america, particularly since world war 2. you know, a lot of a lot of america's economic growth is forward to, has been fueled by, by the defense industries and by various wars around the world. so that is a, that is an inescapable issue. i think that is even larger than the labor movement. it is true that there, there are some of the actions of organized labor that are more concerned with their own jobs. and they are with geo political issues. and so it's not uncommon to find union supporting anything that will give them jobs, even if, even if something bad is coming of it. on the other hand, it is possible for organize labor as a whole, to have more world positions and to,

and to combine. and you see that, for example, in a big coalition, the unions that has come together to offer a ceasefire and gaza. and that, that includes some of the biggest and strongest unions in the f l. c o n o a l c o . yeah, but of them down tools that the big uh, have you know, lockheed martin raphael on these big companies do effectively receiving subsidy from the american taxpayer or the american pause. and if it is the threat of nuclear war that we're headed for because of the war in ukraine, no sign that work as we'll see beyond their daily pay rates and realize they've got to down tools because of policy. that is giving them the edge. because their lives might be endangered to a yeah, i mean most of the add time, militaristic sentiment within the way movement is very much at the grassroots level, the way movement. so. so you see grassroots activists inside of unions,

for example, organizing today to try to shut down arm shipments to, to some of the ports in america, and to get the longshore workers to actually refuse to serve the ships. that is, that's an example of an action that is happening today. but again, very grassroots driven. those things are not coming down from the top of organized labor. they're not coming from the f l. c o, they're not typically coming from the presidents. they're coming from the workers themselves, and so yes, it is true that we need to elevate that kind of sentiment up to the top of the labor movement. and there are not a lot of sites that 10 is going to happen anytime soon. you know, overseas, the national endowment for democracy is known as union busting and the way it to a to is being accused of trying to stop or organize labor in the developed world in the united states as being the history of sell outs. what about the cobra action today in organized labor? have you witnessed as a labor reporter over the years?

are there suspect the actors as it were involved in um, creating trouble to stop work as organizing, like they used to during the mccarthy is you know, it's just, it's not something that, that i've really witnessed as a labor journalist and i think unfortunately the truth is like they don't need covered after assessing to give trouble seeing these days. i mean there, there are enough. 5 bad union leaders out there and there's, and there is so much power on the corporate side right now. and the laws are so tilted in favor of corporate power. that all they need to do is, is to simply union bust and they can be very open about it and they are very open about it. and they have teams of lawyers that do it. and they have teams of anti uni consultants that do it. and so undermine the labor movement, is something that the, the government, the federal government and particularly a lot of state governments, are very openly involved in themselves. they don't, they don't need to be covered actors for that in the united states,

at least. so it stands it around 10 percent, then membership now and well, famously trump speech when he was inaugurated, talking about the industrialization of the midwest, clear that many of those 10 percent will be voting. trump, not for joe biden, given joe by and talked about the middle classes and doesn't really seem to appeal to the industrial base of the united states, which is clearly going to be required if the united states is going to prosper and grow economically is yeah, one of the reasons why the new union organizing is so important in the united states is that is that our national politics have become so polarized. it is very hard to see ways for us to break out of this read 1st blue to party head to head cycle that we're in downward spiral that has given us the rise of trump uh now over to 3 consecutive elections. and one of the only ways that you can bring people together,

particularly in those devastated american heart land states that that were economically decimated by new liberalism. that by offshoring is to get people into unions and to show them the potential of a truly democratic organization. not democratic like electoral politics, which is not in fact democratic, but truly democratic in the, in the sense of a well run union that can be the foundation to bridge that gap between red and blue, between all types of workers coming together to pursue a common goal and i really believe that new union organizing can be the path that leads us out of this impasse. however, as you said at only 10 percent of americans having unions, we're not going to get there. that needs to be a very, very big, large scale effort to get more americans into union. so we can use that tool. clearly ai is going to be used as an organizing tool by workers. and technology is

going to be used by those trying to lobby senate isn't going grissman against the corporate loving power for multi nationals, iowa. the boss is going to be using ai to destroy work about yeah, unfortunately, i think the 1st way the boss are going to use a i is just to eliminate jobs. i think that all of the, all of the jobs that are easily automated by a, i are going to be automated by a guy, particularly by bosses that don't care so much about quality and, and in industries that might have thought that they were saved from automation so the last wave of automation was in the manufacturing industries, and now you're going to see a i automation come for the knowledge industries and a white collar industries where a lot of workers had assume that their jobs were not possible to be automated away . and when he saw the strikes last year in hollywood, among the actors and the, and the screen writers, a big, big concern of the strikes was how

a i was going to be used in the entertainment industry. so those unions are seeing the, the dangers of a i coming down the pike and they're starting to regulate those things and union contracts. and you're really going to see, i think that union contracts will be the place that due to the firewall and the protections for workers against a i well before the government is ever able to do it. and so, given that the buell book talks about, the unions being a paramount importance of reducing and equality which is being rising over the decades. unions conte be as powerful as they uh, used to be because of all these innovations like a i what else is it going to be just up the in the quality as well. the only other thing that that's capable of turning around in a quality is, is the government action, federal government action in particular. and i am pretty optimistic about the prospect. i'm sorry. pessimistic pessimistic about the prospects of federal

government action doing that because clearly for the past 50 years, the trend lines have been moving in the opposite direction. and so that is one reason why i feel so invested in the success of unions in particular, is that the options out there are very bad outside of building labor power and work or power in the context of unions and allowing working people to claim larger. a larger share of the nation as well for themselves. other than that here, depending on politicians and the track record of politicians is very bad on that front. that's what you're going to quote, the kennedy, those who make peaceful revolution impossible being violent physician and ever full . while i'm hoping for peace in any case, how does o and thank you. thank you. and that's it for the show, the new book to how much power and equality and the struggle for this sort of labor as i've now remember, we're bringing you new episodes every saturday monday until then keep in touch by the social media. if it's still in the sense that in your country and had to channel going on demand tv,

hon. don't come to what you and old episodes going undergrads. you said the the water is part of one of the valuable posted isn't the defense you of us and that in the word part is it something deeper, more complex might be present. let's stop without collision. is that spelled out of

a new video of alleged abuse by an officer to day for sheriff's deputy and columbia. south carolina forcibly removed his student from a classroom at spring valley high school. i saw him just talking to her and her and initially, you know, i didn't think it was a problem because i knew that she was just as quite a student in the class. someone looked at the police officer and says, here was law enforcement that is worse, clearly attacking, abusing power, and then there are others besides, this is what's wrong with those probably be on discipline. black church. he was there, enforcing a lot to meet the time to quote, disturb schools in any way. that means any disturbance that any kids causes and school is huge and forces never predict but necessary. a tops people were never gonna change your mind so people will never change their minds about the video. they think i was wrong. and that's it.

the when i 1st moved to rush i, one of the most amazing things i found was the most cool, metro in fact, at the very 1st phrase that i ever learned and nothing was terrible. so what makes this place so specially what secrets is of hiding to find out deep under the city with alexander football season story and who studies the wonders of the moscow metro the little to no one. no, no, no, no, no, not for to most of the location of the unit 731 was a unique organization in the history of the world. what they were trying to do was

to simply do nothing should or build the most powerful and most deadly biological weapons program that the world had every now through you know, to production with it. so it gives you a shift of the great deal to the youth suddenly with as little as you keep a move model. uh, mazda thought, this name nguyen, one of our, from the sale of that i don't understand. i wish to know about doing so need. i know you gave him some more promotion to try to put them with this kind of them of the a party bill because you cannot push the couch. so for those people to go with a 0 to want this on this to she, my

a new on it on site can send me $71.00 a year. you're not on the put them out there to give us the the hello, when welcome to prospect bullhorn and peter labelle. here we discuss some real news with the passage of buttons. huge for an a bill. it is important to ask, what is next? what is really the purpose of this aid to help you claim when we're only just starve off defeat? for now, to discuss these issues and for i'm joined by gilbert caro in st. petersburg. he's an independent political analyst, an author of memoirs of an ex pat manager in moscow during the 19 ninety's. and here in moscow, we have dmitri bob beach. he is a political analyst at sp, nick international. i drove across type roles in effect. that means you can jump

any time you want and i always appreciate it. all right,