the police fun scrambled, the hold back of the crowd, which surrounded the country's tournaments. some demonstrators held e u flags and attempted to pro european slogans, flashed interrupted in the city on sunday evening. as writers tried to storm the scene of an upcoming riley of the ruling party that fax, the bill opposition has granted and democratic and once it's scrapped. but the government says the proposed law is needed to for tail. the influence of foreign funded and deals in georgia, the locals have been rallying against the controversial legislation for weeks. protesters tried to storm the parliament building several times earlier in april. some of the critics time the bill is progress in which the georgia and government denies. russel's has cautioned to police see against passing the laws saying it undermines georgia has been for e u membership as it goes against the blocks values. well, that's just like the fact that the european commission itself has adopted a similar buildup, defensive democracy package, and they stay with our to international have next on cross talk after the passage

of president by them is huge for an a bill, peter lavelle and his guest discuss what comes next and what's the purpose of the 8 by the hello, when welcome to prospect bullhorn and peter labelle. here we discuss some real news with the passage of binds huge for an a bill. it is important to ask, what is next? what is really the purpose of this aid to help you claim when or only just star boff defeat? for now, to discuss these issues and bar, i'm joined by gilbert caro in st. petersburg. he's an independent political analyst, an author of memoirs. i'm an ex pat manager in my a scout during the 1990s,

and here in moscow we have dmitri bob. it's steve is a political analyst at spoke nick, international gentlemen cross type roles and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate it, right, let's start out with the m a here in moscow where we've had a week now to kind of digest the passage of a biden's huge for an a bill in an election year of all things. and of course we have the bikes, but bi partisan consensus of foreign mores and intervention. you saw the results after the vote was taken on the house floor with the waving of the flags and everything. for a lot of people and congress, it was a feel good thing, but in the, at the end of the day, even in main stream media, there isn't a hardly a fair on biased towards russia. they're even asking the same questions that all of us have been asking all the long. i mean, fine, you can dedicate money in weapons, but is it going to make any difference after a week of been say, or do you mean,

what do you think? well 1st, some people just don't understand that a huge part of the 60 bottle of beer that is going to be spent on your grain. a huge part of it is going to be spans the previous really varies. i mean is good. uh, the budget is going to compensate and to go on pool for the deliveries that is already made for the expenses that we've already weighed. about. 11000000000 are actually going to be spent on a nato troops. american troops next be great. all right. uh and uh and the other thing is that uh, even though uh, i think it was drum queen systems that via my going some people don't normally do these alone. i liked the phrase. busy them i sent it the send it the old list to be a promo of republican from obama. he said, don't let yourself be fooled. no, the door of this is going to be paid for snow to low. you know,

we know the resume that exists in ukraine since the $1014.00 was they get the money together. you know, they never, they, but so basically, i think everyone is more so the, well, the will continue. no longer more people are going to die. probably in areas far removed from the front line because uh it ask you will by himself. just get for free, long range, nice sipes. uh the american taxpayer will never get keys or her money back. and again, uh, 2 bills. so the don't let you say it will be full. not all of this is going to be paid by going to print these dollars, but we're going to borrow it from china. well, did you even i, americans are concerned about their dependence on china. it's going to increase, so yeah, well deem it and then this, i'll throw it over to gilbert. i mean, if you read the fine print of the bill, it's a sweet, hard low and the don't have to pay it back. it's in the bill itself. it was,

it was marketed in a very different way, but in the, if you look at the, the black and white it is an absolute give away gilbert. i mean, it, it seems to me and all of us have been watching this very closely. not since 2022, but since 2024. 14 at the very least, much longer actually in many ways, this is just as a to start off to feet. they don't, they, they can do. maybe they don't have a plan to wait and they just want to avoid losing, i guess, because it's an election year gilbert. i agree completely with this. and there is a substantial consensus among experts. but i wouldn't necessarily suggest opposition. people opposition to the, the washington narrative, but even in the mainstream, there is a consensus that this is not going to say who give you claim the possibility of recovering his territory. that is a loss cause i think a consensus of experts and even moving into mainstream is coming close to us. jack mode was saying about 4 months ago that this war has nothing to do but you cream is

everything you do with the western russia. and ukraine has been used and abused by the west care, callously viciously actually said to, to the maxima, to extend to cause of direction. i think what is more trouble, some more worries, some for us all is not the 61000000000 just been appropriated for military and find headings and budgetary assistance to ukraine. it as well as going on just under the radar and not very, not very far below it because it is being picked up by some stupid people about that. i mean, they, the dispatcher to ukraine of advisors advisors to assist with the most advanced equipment. there's no it scheduled to be delivered to ukraine. this takes us back to where were you wherever the 19 sixty's, let's say american advisors in vietnam. and that was a time when it was still an understanding of red lines to prevent

a direct military clash between the superpowers that is going wait. there is no recognition of red lines as mister chrome said in a very provocative way, but an accurate way. and the possibility of this escalating further, then you conventionally, this is really there, we have more, more nato advisors coming in. we have more and more targeting of those negative handled advisors by the russian minister defense. and sooner or later, this becomes explosive, as well, even a demo. of course, i mean, many souls will say that this is going up, the escalation lighter. for the very reason the gilbert just mentioned is a new going to bridge see more and more nato troops going into ukraine. but it belies the fact that no matter what the west does. visa, the ukraine, the russians though it's directed against them. and it's a lot changing the,

the moving the needle as it were on the battlefield. i mean, there are a number of experts that you and i am gilbert of our audience follow is that being ukrainian lines are becoming weaker and weaker. and there could be some kind of break down. what does nato do then? well, nature will say that just, you know, the dictator correct up to be stronger than we expect the, the democracy is on the way around the world, or the grants are on the rise. but going to cure water with that, the permanent lives, the united states and the are being union kind of become ideological states, idaho, logical entities. and they have a control where they moved it is up. so do you know, look, one of the main categories sticks of authoritarian view, is that you mix, cohen, morals and politics. so during the last 3 months, the message that i had from them very good get great from the european

correspondence. it was, you're creating a sub dining room she's advancing and your mike joso is to blame for that. you were dealing with the march. so you are a bad man. you know, good, personally responsible for something, for everything that's happened, this is bad, that happens. great. so there is the mix up of morals and 40 to so you know, you the same way in the soviet union. if you were a gain spot. and if you said something bad about started, you just know you can just make a mistake. you're a very bad person, you had to be a shame. and so so we see this used to you and it's just a stone you how to read it in the wes changes. it's dudes oh these few months before it was, you know, you create armies starting. uh there are no munitions. all these people have. why don't some. in fact, it was not true because of the munitions deliver the 1000. thank you. 2023. you

know, most of this money is going to be just compensating, you know, attempted one of the american, made it to industrial focus for that. but they wanted to create that asp last year and saw them the after the money was the $1.00 actually physically, it's not you there and the nation, some of that. but suddenly, the don't change, you know, totally, we don't have all of these sent to mental articles about the soldiers and soft free offices. and so we've been savanski and the story that was just the style again for me was how was the last he said, how come when the israel, i'm sure you know when he's real, was it then? but you're right. your engine roles. everyone rushed to the help we 0. why are we not israel and the team a but for the very reasons, a gilbert just said it's not about ukraine. that's what's really practicable. but it's very, you know, you know, gilbert's this, you know,

who we do as we are on this program. counter intuitive here. that the 61000000000 it. and it doesn't really matter the amount at the end, you know, people um, uh, make the amount that the center of the story doesn't really matter. because all this does is that it speeds up the demise of what we know of ukraine. this is going to speed it up nots. it's slow it down for the very reason that there is no strategic plan back we backing with. there's no strategic plan that this money is going to forward and that's the m. s. the tragedy of it all. we're going to see math subconscious, old days, and its been busy, its equipment is, is diaz diaz pointed out, is that a lot of it that probably hasn't even been made yet. so i mean, this is really kind of a unicorn stuff, gilbert on both sides, both on the russian side and on the american side and allied side of the there is a feeling that the coming months will be decisive. this act, if congress,

which biting successfully remarkably got screwed over the opposition of trump. um that is a wow that that's, that's a little unclear gilbert. i mean, he was, you know, yeah, mike johnson, when tomorrow largo they got, they did the photo op. i mean, i think trump totally totally um um um um, fumbled this one and for a public relations point of view. go ahead. yeah. well, i think that's um the uh the, the, its coming months or decisive for bite and his re election campaign. and this is a holding action will it will hold or not, mostly remains to be seen. it is understood the same way by the russians, that they have a period before them of several months to conclusively knock out the crane before this thing really goes off in a while direction. so i think we have to sit back,

watch this closely, and see where is going. it could go to into world war 3 very easily and cut also. and in a, in a capitulation by ukraine very easily. so all the reasons that have been discussed, they're out of minutes, not just out of munitions, and to speak about russians. advantage of 5 to one or 7 to one in in the artillery shells. there's thinking about that as is it for sure, our new development coming from the, the failure of the allies to deliver munitions to create that's rubbish. it's been 7 to 10 to one since since february of 2022. yep. so it for the reading public who is who has been sleep for the last 2 years. this has noticed that the rest of us is not news at all. and you have to look for what spells the difference . the difference is the right of man. not out of munitions and they, the members that are throwing in are unprepared every same. virtually every seem to be a great insight about russian army is simply

a reversal effects. they're describing themselves. it's right and the say they're putting up all the trains man and the rest and mobilization office. and so these lies are description of their own situation. alright and gilbert, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break gentlemen. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real new stay with r t, the of the, the, the, the,

[000:00:00;00] the the welcome back across that bullhorn design, peter roosevelt to mind you were discussing some real names, deem a deal on the theme and going back with him about the appropriation of the $61000000000.00, which of course, depending on how you count it, i mean, and some, some people pointed out a 1000000000 of it will be in cash, which i guess we all know what will happen to that very quickly ok, corruption, and you claim has only gotten worse. it's not gotten better unfortunately for the people of ukraine, for the people that actually want their pension and all that. i don't see why the united states the tax payer should pay in other countries, pensions, maybe

a topic of another program. but one could be much more cynical. this is one big wet chase. good by there, washing their hands of it because they that's going to need that 61000000000 will go up in smoke quite literally depending on how you want to interpret it. it's not good. it's not going to make a difference on the battlefield as we've already discussed in this program. so this was just kind of a feel good vote a remarkably and maybe one of your both of you want to address is why give bite and a when in an election year like this i, i'm simply mystified by the me. well, let's look at the fever for to you what you 6 being you owe them all. 61 is going to be spent on the remaining. uh, i guess uh, 15000000000 is going to be spent on ukraine and escrow right. is that parts are we will be in cash, and uh,

it is supposed to bunk and save the pension as well. it's very easy for the ukrainian government to steal that point. and during the debates of the set of fuels set up, so like a j d ran some dollars, they raised it. they said, well, you said it was one of the most corrupt, aren't you seem to, well, how come west stadium? them all money? no, i asked for the battle ground. this for the golds the ain sped zelan skin is mazda a sake of themselves. i just know 3, at least, you know, pay back, right. and you are. there are 2700000 people leaving that same year. you know, it has to be in a box of graphs, new bar scene, 1783. the huge majority of the people that do not want under any circumstance, you will back to great. you know, when american media was a little bit more on this, you know, the 9th, it's look at the article by side as to own and to know times by steve rober, just the oil roll. the russians make up with huge majority in britain yet. that okay,

be we think great don't that they will not know say even more i'm happy because they get combined at that. uh so why do you, what kind of on realistic goals, yukon we, you know, and what, what's going on smacks or what need to do, you know, the congress, you know, they bought a spot this bill while i'm off there is really, i'm still announced the only bill is ation 250000 ma'am. we'll have to go to the army. that means to the front and, and you know that these terrible things that you bring them down and there's not required. and ukraine is leaving the girl to come to the cultural offices and sign up uh, you know, clear out their situation uh, their relationship with the army. otherwise, they will not send you their prospects and all of these media. so then we'll, we'll become illegals. info on it because i'm usually maybe gilbert knows this, but that's in contravention to o. e u laws. okay,

mean these people are conscientious of the country, obviously, opposing this company, but that's neither here nor there would would, would gilbert with bothers me and is what we've seen over the last few months. and particularly, we want to consider the, the implications of the attack on the concert hall in st. petersburg, it seems the u. s, because they are the ones that are calling the shots here. they want to rely more and more on terrorism, which of course, is something that the russians will react to very, very strongly, obviously. so the, the, the, the a symmetrical and this of it is becoming more and more obvious. are you worried about that mescal leading? the guys thinks this is difficult to contain entirely a state sponsored terrorism. so the possibility of some sort of tragedy a head cannot be excluded entirely. that none the less way. the result of this appropriation and the continuation of the work and particularly result of the

ukrainian anticipated use of the of the longer range missiles do attack civilian targets in russian will be a further aggravation. and a further intensification of what is being seen for the last 2 months when russia finally uh us. it has been staging it to attacks on the, on the generating plants on substations to destroy the, the right infrastructure of electricity and ukraine. and to target, particularly the areas from which the most the most a vicious attacks on civilians in building to be able to guard the region of russia having stage name and, and that is the to the, to take over. but uh, so essentially the ukraine, 2nd largest city except o'clock is then that's the, the like the exits,

chrome car competitors can show a lot of television is going to continue as going to become still greater. so what i can see is one of the i was one of the expected results that was going on is a further extension of bruce key me or an investor near. i live in brussels, i can tell you right now, sometimes i wonder if i'm in moscow 6. all i hear around me is the russian speech. and this is from the so called ukrainians were now among us. and that is a fact of life that i see. and i don't see, i don't believe that there will be any return to a to ukraine of those whom i now see around me and then you go and brussel. but i'm sure you also see embarrassment. and burden and other sl gilbert. i mean, if you're, if you're a young, you paid in woman and you have a child and that child is already speaking or learning german or learning poll assure you know french that the likelihood of returning home to a devastated country is bubble close to 0. um, you know, a demon in

a very shortly. um, president lot of, uh, what about the americas as zalinski will no longer be the legal president of ukraine. i thought it was quite interesting listening to the floor speech is about democracy versus authoritarianism. but zalinski will be an unelected. um, uh, why. so i don't know whatever term you want to, viceroy dictate or strong man i with who will be no legal legitimacy behind him maintaining power too low. i think that brings us back to these a desperate question. question from dimansky, why am i not israel? why? why did you bring all the big israel? because your on, on the left to really 3 big teacher and you'll have to grab the security service, you know, started the car, some just visited your grant. and when he came back to the states just said he had the what s b you around to?

so all the time as b. o is of that. uh, grand and security service. uh we, which people really feel, i mean, they sealed it somewhat more than soviet cage you be, you know, and certainly more than f as b c. so the fact that he is not the left to is just the smallest though is since in reality of course, people did not support his excellence, which led to this bed, right? indeed, the 1st place, it could be of one of the uh, bunks of the times before it started on february 24th of 2050 to you know, in gilbert looking at some of the western media coverage. um, most of it is quite laughable. and obviously tragic because so many young men, particularly ukranian men, continue to die. but there's the new mantra. i mean it's being introduced. is that my who wants results by victory day, bye bye, may 9. so, you know, i, i just kind of just roll my eyes. i mean, if, um, there's been any,

if there's this to this military campaign, the special military operation, as it was initially called, called has no timelines at all. i haven't, they learned that by now that and into that maybe the tail end of that is that the, the big russian defense of that's coming i, i don't see that either. i think that they see what they're doing is working. maybe not as fast as any of us would like, but it is working. that's why they needed the $61000000000.00 gilbert. you're all of a, with kids who are in washington, 900 and berlin and in london have the same failure to think outside the box. they project on to russia was their own military campaign that looked like. and then they draw conclusions that russia fails here and there because it hasn't done what they expect. any like the shopping. i was not going to say they know they would ways in russia using shocking off. yeah. so best really began in february 2022 and

that's where we are today. they simply refused to learn that there are other ways to h, a war and there are other concepts of war making, then their own. and the russian concept goes, it goes back that was invented here, it goes back to the close of it's where, where military action is a projection to continuation and handmade and then of diplomacy. so the, this is not appreciate that diplomacy has gone up by the boards in united states and west of year. and they just cannot see that. so really, and they send me an intellectual, conceptual failure, a bunch of stuff that people can do, things differently and have a different set of objectives. and that's where we are today, you know, deem it eventually all conflicts come to an end and all complex. there is an element of diplomacy at the very end of what it, what initiative it has the west given russia to engage in diplomacy. in that sense, the west is and rejected it completely. well, i will,

the will get them to know why the frame uh, what hopefully part of the united states of the you and that since the of the way to spread it was full spread off in 1990 took both a single what they tried in gilbert didn't work for all the other mores were made by them. you know, uh they, they, uh why the small conflicting to bank loans like the protesting, serious thanks to them go into a single well, uh, we have many examples, but i would like to quote saying that the so much sugar wheelchair speaking against this bill. uh, at the sentence you said we need to work with the green and rush it to m all these . and then he had a bought that is called the po she, that's not going to come from us. unfortunately, i am afraid he was right because working with ukraine and rough, she was telling me when it was the last time when the states and the you would work

with both sides of the book that was just for the bonds side in syria. you leave it every as well. you know, gilbert were rapidly running out of time, but the secretary blinked and went to china and scolded them for backing russia and whatever form that he claims. so there's not a lot of evidence, but it, it, but what i find really interesting when you see the secretaries a lecturing another country about helping another country and it comes like, well, what is the west doing with you crate? i mean they, they, they don't see the symmetry. they did, they don't, they, these people have no sense of, of, uh so, um it, they can see it see how the other side would see the same problem. gilbert. well the other side simply cannot be right. there there's one way to do it and that's our way. that's right. the way we have allies, but you don't have any. yeah. why did you cannot that always by definition, you are an axis of evil or whatever. and so there is this

a mental failure not to put things together? yeah, well, mental. okay. yeah. well, i mean, i think the great, the steven cohen would probably the one of the greatest rushing us there ever was. we said, during the cold war you, we could, we, it needed to be in the other guy shoes to be able to see what's going on. that, that there's an inability of doing that. and i think that deem is ultimately right . it's very ideological. we have in all around the world that with the west that is ideological, most of the world once practical results. and that usually happens in history when you're a practical or a gentleman that's all the time we have one, i think my guess in saint petersburg and here in moscow in and of course i want to think of yours for watching us here. are the see you next time and remember cross stop rules

the, the, the, the part of our executive. and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. what can i please or do you have the state department c, i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want my show state main street because i'm probably going to

make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching. but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way the our top story is on our t ukrainian troops continue. there are trade wall washington's 1st aid package. cios is far from the reality of what the billions of dollars are intended for the come uh says it has no major issue this after considering israel's most recent proposal for a long awaited peace deal and hostage release agreement and gaza as the group's delegation arrives in egypt also at the close zillow has been delayed by a number of weeks at this point. and they are hoping to ensure that the ships leave as quickly as possible. protesters in turkey, a raleigh,