the, the i'm action or can see welcome back to going undergrad, broadcasting go around the world from the u. a. i had them in november's election so called mainstream corporate propaganda media in the united states will center analysis on personality and identity instead of clause. it wasn't always so once it was the working classes and organized labor, the terrified us, it leads and threatened that controlled, but as new liberal in the quality is risen over the decades, the worker is back last year as well. over half a 1000000 work is across industries, from automotive to aviation, to entertainment, hissing the picket lines in nearly 400 strikes in the us genocide,

joe biden even intervene to make transport strikes illegal. joining me now is labor journalist, hamilton nolan, north of the have a power and equality in the struggles episode of labor. hamilton himself played a key role in unionizing the workforce at gould media. you joins me now from new york. how old is it that you so much for coming on? i understand that your book, it made the usa today best seller list. what drove you to right and how come it struck such a cord, seemingly in the united states and in the election? yeah. and uh, well, i have been a labor journalist for a long time and i, as you mentioned, got the opportunity to help organize my own workplace, a golf or media in 2015. i got a chance to see the labor movement of both from the outside of the journalist and from the inside as somebody participating in my own union. and you know, as a backdrop, to this book, 50 years of rising in a quality in the united states of america, particularly since the reagan era has let us to a point when people have gotten fed up. and public opinion polls tell us today that

unions are as popular as they have been in 60 years in the united states of america . so i think that we may have finally hit a tipping point when people are ready to reclaim the work or power that has been lost to them over the past generations. yeah, it was the old, even of the academy awards to hear people talk about the successful writers strike over there. but at the same time, what exactly happened with joe biden in the transport work as a he see you next to the lord to stop the strike. yeah, joe, biting um likes to tell himself as the most pro union president of our lifetimes, which i think he probably is, although it's the extremely low bar. if you think even of democratic presidents like bill clinton and brock obama. so the ones in my lifetime did not really spend a lot of their own political capital to help prop up unions or promote work or

power. so by, by those low standards, by and as been a very pro you, your president. however, as you mentioned, when the, when the railroad workers went to go on strike, which would have been the biggest strike of his presidency. he did use his power to prevent them from going on strike, which is unfortunately, has become the standard for president to under the railway labor act, which is a sort of a lot designed to contain worker power in those transportation industries. but it could have chosen not to do that fundamentally. and the fact that he stopped that strike, i think, is the biggest market against him. and his claim to be a real, probably a new president, some of the constitution coming to action that to protect workers. unfortunately, there's a, you know, us labor law is very insight worker fundamentally. and especially in, in those transportation industries which have their own law called the railway

labor acts, which restricts them even more of the private sector workers. so it's, it's very difficult for those workers to pull off large scale strikes because the government has given itself the power to order them not to do so. so it's like if they really threaten corporate profits, that's what comes into action. i mean, in the fifty's hollywood, of course, at bottom, brando and on the waterfront, use this part of the cultural propaganda war to destroy the reputation of trade unions across the united states. what are they using right now then? because seemingly people are saying, yeah, union is a good but at the same time as the railway work, as the strikes shows underneath the surface, there are subtle ways the powerful can use to stop work is organizing as well. you know, since since the 1980s in particular, and since the ronald reagan era, the unions have really declined culturally economically socially.

mathematically in all ways, uni density has been on the decline with the rise of the regulations from the reagan era. and then with the rise of the liberalism, that was promoted by democratic presidents as well as public and presidents. i think that however, we have reached the time when that might be changing. and particularly since the pandemic years when tens of millions of american workers found themselves at work found themselves in crisis, found themselves deemed essential. workers without the given pay raises all those things that serve to kind of radicalize a new generation of workers in america. and i think culturally and politically and economically we're, we're starting to see a potential turnaround in the way that people think about unions and labor and america. and the question is whether the labor movement itself, which is kind of been rendered weak over all these decades of decline,

can take advantage of this moment. so if the people are in the united states are watching this and want to form a trade union in a private sector business, tell me what obstacles are gonna they're gonna come up against to prevent them from organizing their labor. well, the 1st obstacle is that the labor laws in america make it very easy for employers to retaliate against workers for tried to form unions. even though it is technically illegal for employers to retaliate for, organize, and activity. the penalties for doing that are almost non existent, and so big employers know that it's actually in their interest to do things like fire workers who try to organize to intimidate workers who try to organize. so those tactics come with such small penalties that companies are really economically incentivized to crack down on unions and pursue union busting so that, that's the 1st obstacle that workers have to encounter. and the other obstacle

really is, is again, the weakness of organized labor itself, all of those decades of decline had made it very hard for workers to do simple and basic things like get in contact with the union are for nicer. find a union that is willing to put the resources behind them to pursue a successful organizing campaign to fight against employers that already investing . so on both sides, workers are, workers are dealing with obstacles, both of the company being able to step on their necks and then trying to find the union that, that is willing to help them out and back them and their struggle the a, f l. c. i o in the book, you call them a media greenhouse loving from. it's known around the world that organization has something that is promoted death squads and torture, low across latin america. and in the global south, tell me what the f l c i o is. first of all, because many people might recognize it as

a cut out of the intelligence agencies. how, how it's supposed to help trade shooting and said, work is around the world, but actually as being performing a different role to buy. so they have also is a, is the largest federation of unions and united states of america. 60 unions. it has around, i believe, $13000000.00 total members. so it is not a union itself. it is a, it is a labor federation, the biggest, the most powerful labor federation america. as you mentioned throughout the history of the eso, it has been played by a lot of problems, not the least of which are some of his foreign policy, foreign policy positions that is taken over many years. it's also, it's also historically been a fairly conservative labor federation is always falling on the conservative spectrum of labor history. but the fact remains that when you look at organized labor in america for better or worse,

the f o c o is the organization that sits at the center of it. and most union members in america are technically members of the f, l. c. o. and so when you think of the starting point to build a stronger labor movement in america, it is going to start inside the f l. c o like it or not because that is the organization that exists. that is the table that. busy or most of the biggest students in america are sitting around. so it's a, it's an organization that has a lot of potential um, domestically at least 2 to be the place that helps to rebuild the labor moving in america. but it has always suffered from conservatism and a little bit of a lack of ambition and a lack of a vision. you called it mediocre. yeah. i love being. yeah. um and you know, this statement, i'm 3, give you from the middle east. on the genocide in the middle east, was they recommended a, a negotiated cease, where they would even clear enough, unlike many other trade unions about what's happening here in the middle east to

cole for a purpose, east fire and gauze. yeah, i mean it's, it's always going to probably be disappointing to look to the have whole seo for more leadership is the time to abolish it. and it's not something new, like many unions are going their separate ways and they have done every day when they're a more conservative elements in, in the organized labor that it preventing them fight for their rights. yeah, there have been instances in labor history when the more progressive unions and unions that really want to pursue organizing have split off from the seo. it happened early in the 20th century when they formed the c i o. and it happened again in, in the late 20th century, when they said, article is called, changed when, oh, those instances where unions that wanted to pursue big industrial organizing. and they were frustrated by the f l. cios, reluctance to do that. so it's always, it's always been the same thing with apple c o. however, abolishing it, the problem is if you abolish it,

you just have to rebuild it again from the ground up. so i would like to see it taken over and used as, as a tool for good rather than abolished. so tell me about sarah nelson. i know in the reagan the error breaking the pilot's union was a major part of ronald reagan in the eighty's to for which the new liberal will be now exist in. and i also dennis consider to be able to see our interview with him. he is, might be going for congress, a game. talk about all the nefarious ways, attempts and made to destroy political power. that helps workers. why is there a nelson, is that you here for you? in the book, sir nelson is the head of the association of flight attendance, which is the, the union for a flight attendance, the united states. she is sort of the running central figure of my book. she's very passionate progressive firey, labor leader that i've always admired as the labor journalist. one is versus union leaders that, that i ever interview, that i felt like really grasp the, the scale of the problems that we were faces in america and had to sort of drive in

the ambition to try to fix those problems. um, she is a great progressive, she's an ally of bernie sanders. she is one of the most prominent left wing labor leaders. and in the book i sort of follow her struggle of how and whether to become a leader of the larger labor movement and some of the challenges with trying to pull together the leadership and a move at that is so disparate and divided politically and otherwise. so there have been some successful strikes recently, of course these are make the big headlines ones at the amazon and then starbucks, which actually is being the subject of boycotts in asia or over it's a relationship with the, with israel. um, how, how did, how did the starbucks strikes, succeed? a starbucks has been a very uh inspirational organizing campaign started a couple of years ago and they decided to, to unionize once toward

a time. and they've, and they have successfully nice 400 stores now across america. starbucks workers campaign has very grass roots campaign, very worker driven a lot of young, ideologically motivated workers at the stores who's done a lot of the work themselves to spread this organizing campaign. and at the same time, the billionaire founders, starbucks, our shots are radically, was born so sorry, i'm actually interviewed. oh yeah. yeah. he, i rightly was going to be hillary clinton's choice for labor secretary and now he's the, he's the most notorious union bus or in the united states of america. but recently they did, in fact get starbucks to agree to come to the table and negotiate a contract with that union. so they, they have um, they have a light at the end of the tunnel for that campaign. and it's been very successful. and as you mentioned, they were, they were on the forefront of calling for us east fire and gaza of something that

spread to a lot of other unit as well. and we'll do now and i'll stop you there. well, from the old or the new books, i am a power inequality and the struggle with this sort of labor up to this break, the the see the silver. so the, somebody how can it be that is a ship to the middle east from a country whose top officials constantly complain about shortages of munitions and military equipments through a low paying boy a bit of boston low cream. and then the old one used to stand with below came along the nominal facility, or some of those other slash we,

i'm about to the easiest to, to not know. so what are the easiest number mobile bubbles sold? well, nice to know kind of the piece that have gone on now. well, why are weapons from ukraine spreading over the world to, to this country and to a major arms hub, will continue to bolster ukraine's and forces by rushing them occasionally use that they need to defend their country. the everyone knows very well that we don't sell but known as pineapples or any kind of children's toys. we sell weapons. yes, we're also known in the world as items dealers that we must not be ashamed of them . the of the welcome back to going under granite affiliate with hamilton, illinois, through the new book, the habit of power and equality, and the struggle for the soul of labor. we were talking about the successes uh, as regards uh say starbucks. but all these unions of backing joe biden,

this november, that includes uh, obviously the f l c i o f t a f, a c m i a f t. and then you people can look these up as all these acronyms that was difficult enough. i think the working are you a w uh, shop flow of different numbers. i think the 1st thing they need to do is make the union so easier to easier to understand like corporate logos perhaps. why is it they back, joe biden? biden's choice of the federal reserve boss, jerome powell, and obviously he was there before, says it is high wage growth is the problem in the united states. that's why inflation is that even for his magazine, is saying that's a bit harsh, is actually the root of all evil, high wage growth. do you think many of these union workers are seeing high wage growth and then blaming themselves because of biden's, the fed boss? as well, i, you know, the united states of america is a 2 party system and,

and this is always been a challenge that face organized labor. and america is that there is a big incentive for the democratic party to take unions for granted because of the, the republican party is a partner that wants to essentially abolish unions altogether and staff out all organized labor power. and so the choice is always been the democrats because the other choice is so bad at the same time, of course, biden, who has been relatively pro union, still has the drawbacks, you know, as a, as a, as a president, even as far as labor is concerned, you mentioned the railroad strike and other issues. so the question, because the pro union, when enacting legislation against a powerful susie and just as you said, it's a, it's a very low bar to cause all around the world buttons. foreign policy is being acting, arguably against unionizing. organize labor in foreign policy. right? i mean, because the question for unions is how do you exert influence on joe biden? because trump is a non starter you, trump is trump, is

a guy who was kicked out of his own union for being a scab. i mean, he is completely, as i union, so there is no other choice for buy them at the same time. union just cannot sit back and allow bite in the democratic party to take them for granted. so they have to figure out how to apply pressure and how to influence vitamin the right direction. so 3rd party candidates of never being an issue. we had cornel west on this row. you know, there are these other candidates. trade unions will just be looking to the powerful to bestow their privileges to workers rather than seeking out 3rd party candidates even though for weekly leaks. we know how hillary clinton say destroyed by nissan does. is johns of ever becoming president by uh, using the dnc against a candidate like sizes. i think uh, bernie sanders. it was, it was a candidate within the democratic party would have been a great candidate for labor and had a lot of labor backing and was probably the most pro labor candidate that, that i've seen in my lifetime, who also had

a viable chance of winning the democratic nomination, the problem again with 3rd party candidates, the united states of america is that unless they have a viable chance of winning, all you do is cut down a support to, to the candidate closest to your side. so there's, there's problems with the design of the american electoral system that make it very hard for 3rd party candidates to be viable. sources of power for you just to support is another problem. but given biden's of our choice for keynesian militarism growth in the us economy depends on the proxy war through ukraine, on sending billions of dollars of worth of weapons to israel, to kill in gaza. the necessarily, the big trade unions are going to be representing the weapons industry and the military industrial complex that any moral person wants to avoid and destroy in favor of a piece making infrastructure investor investment as well. this is certainly been

a perpetual problem in the united states of america, particularly since world war 2. you know, a lot of a lot of america's economic growth is forward to, has been fueled by, by the defense industries and by various wars around the world. so that is a, that is an inescapable issue. i think that is even larger than the labor movement. it is true that there, there are some factions of organized labor that are more concerned with their own jobs, and they are with geo political issues. and so it's not uncommon to find union supporting anything that will give them jobs, even if, even if something bad is coming of it. on the other hand, it is possible for organize labor as a whole, to have more world positions and to, and to combine. and you see that, for example, in a big coalition, the unions that has come together to offer a ceasefire and gaza. and that, that includes some of the biggest and strongest unions in the f l c o n o a l c o.

yeah, but of them down tools that the big a have you know, lockheed martin raphael on these big companies the effectively receiving subsidy from the american taxpayer or the american pause. and if it is the threat of nuclear war that we're headed for because of the war in ukraine, no sign that work as we'll see beyond their daily pay rates and realize they go to down tools because of policy. that is giving them the edge of hoops because their lives might be endangered to a yeah, i mean most of the anti militaristic sentiment within the way movement is very much at the grassroots level, the way movement. so. so you see grassroots activists inside of unions, for example, organizing today to try to shut down harm shipments to, to some of the ports in america, and to get the long short workers to actually refuse to serve the ships. that is, that's an example of an action that is happening today. but again,

very grassroots driven. those things are not coming down from the top of organized labor. they're not coming from the f l. c o, they're not typically coming from the presidents. they're coming from the workers themselves and so yes, it is true that we need to elevate that kind of sentiment up to the top of the labor movement. and there are not a lot of sites that ted is going to happen anytime soon. you know, overseas, the national endowment for democracy is known as union busting in the way it to a to has been accused of trying to stop or organize labor in the developed world. in the united states. there's been a history of sell outs. what about the co but action today in organized labor, have you witnessed as a labor reporter over the years? are there suspect the actors as it were involved in creating trouble? the stuff was organizing like they used to during the mccarthy is you know, it's,

it's not something that, that i've really witnessed as a labor journalist and i think unfortunately, and the truth is like, they don't need covered after assessing to give uh, troubles to you. these days, i mean they're, they're not a bad union leaders out there and there's, and there is so much power on the corporate side right now. and the laws are so tilted in favor of corporate power. that all they need to do is, is to simply union bust and they can be very open about it and they are very open about it. and they have teams of lawyers that do it. and they have teams of anti uni consultants that do it. and so undermine the labor movement, is something that the, the government, the federal government and particularly a lot of state governments, are very openly involved in themselves. they don't, they don't need to be covered afters for that in the united states, at least. so it stands it around 10 percent, then membership now and well, famously trump speech when he was inaugurated, talking about the industrialization of the midwest, clear that many of those 10 percent will be voting. trump, not for joe biden,

given joe by and talked about the middle classes and doesn't really seem to appeal to the industrial base of the united states, which is clearly going to be required if the united states is going to prosper and grow economically is yeah, one of the reasons why the new union organizing is so important in the united states is that, is that our national politics have become so polarized. it is very hard to see ways for us to break out of this read 1st blue uh to party head the head um cycle that we're in downward spiral that has given us the rise of trump. now over to 3 consecutive elections. and one of the only ways that you can bring people together, particularly in those devastated american heart land states that that were economically decimated by new liberalism. and by offshoring is to get people into unions and to show them the potential of

a truly democratic organization. not democratic like elect or politics, which is not in fact democratic, but truly democratic in the, in the sense of a well run union that can be the foundation to bridge that gap between red and blue, between all types of workers coming together to pursue a common goal and i really believe that new union organizing can be the path that leads us out of this impasse. however, as you said at only 10 percent of americans having unions, we're not going to get there. that needs to be a very, very big, large scale effort to get more americans into union. so we can use that tool. clearly ai is going to be used as an organizing tool by workers. and technology is going to be used by those trying to lobby senate isn't going grissman against the corporate loving power for multi nationals, iowa. the boss is going to be using ai to destroy work about yeah,

unfortunately, i think the 1st way the boss are going to use a i is just to eliminate jobs. i think that all of the, all of the jobs that are easily automated by a, i are going to be automated by a guy, particularly by bosses that don't care so much about quality and, and in industries that might have thought that they were safe from automation so the, the last wave of automation was in the manufacturing industries, and now you're going to see a i, automation come for the knowledge industries and the white collar industries where a lot of workers had assume that their jobs were not possible to be automated away . and when he saw the strikes last year in hollywood, among the actors and the, and the screenwriters, a big, big concern of the strikes was how a i was going to be used in the entertainment industry. so those unions are seeing the, the dangers of a i coming down the pike and they're starting to regulate those things and union contracts. and you're really going to see, i think that union contracts will be the place that build the firewall and the

projections for workers. it gives a i, well before the government is ever able to do it. and so, given that the book talks about, the union's being a paramount importance of reducing and equality which has been rising over the decades. unions conte, uh, b as powerful as they used to be. because of all these innovations, like a i, what else is it going to be disrupt the and the quality as well. the only other thing that that's capable of turning around in a quality is, is a government action, federal government action in particular. and i am pretty optimistic about the prospect, i'm sorry. pessimistic pessimistic about the prospects of federal government action doing that because clearly for the past 50 years, the trend lines have been moving in the opposite direction. and so that is one reason why i feel so invested in the success of unions in particular,

is that the options out there are very bad outside of building labor power and work or power in the context of unions and allowing working people to claim larger. a larger share of the nation as well for themselves. other than that here, depending on politicians and the track record of politicians is very bad on that front. that's what you're going to quote, the kennedy, those who make peaceful revolution impossible being violent to care physician and have it full. well, i'm hoping for peace in any case, how the hell and thank you. thank you. and that's it for the show. the new book to how much power and equality and the struggle for this sort of labor as i've now remember, we're bringing you new episodes every saturday monday until then keep in touch 5 or less social media. if it's still in the sense that in your country and have to have channel going underground tv, hon. don't come to what you and old episodes going undergrads. you said the

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the the altima 2023. a surprise attack the lowest against israel by how much the militaries show the world the no one had expected the palestinian run. the goal is to have so many cutting edge