and diane spoke with susan paige for the book. a lot of it i saw and heard about while i worked at abc. there was that competitiveness that was fostered from above. the bosses at abc. they pitted them against each other a lot. but i will say diane goes out of her way to say they had a friendship as well, so it was complicated. i think a lot of this book is complicated, right? barbara walters was so fiercely competitive. i was struck by the end chapters of her life. she wasn't sure she had done enough, if you can believe that. >> wow. >> wow. >> there is a line in the book that she was propelled, not by her strength but by her uncertainties. >> wow. >> that says a lot. >> i get that. >> it says a lot. and i hesitate to say this, but the book says, susan page writes, that she was resentful at times at some of us, the later generations that came because she had to fight so hard. she had to go through so much. >> the doors were already open. >> guess what? >> a lot of trail blazers feel that way. >> guess what, that's very human. it i