music through the speaker and charger, the case itself charges everything. $24, 84% off. >> lawrence: people in new york always have their speakers out. when it's appropriate fine. when it's not, take it out and put it in your ears and go. >> i don't necessarily want to hear the music you want to hear. two different shapes. look for the mega morning deals and find them online. >> ainsley: get this for your friends. >> a strap, great for travel for summer trips. >> lawrence: this deal is exclusive for our audience. >> ainsley: thank you so much. shop and go on the website and see the icon for mega morning deals and you will see all these products. >> lawrence: we'll see you tomorrow. have a good day. >> bill: okay, here we go now. another round, donald trump about to come face-to-face with

michael cohen, third day of testimony begins in moments. we'll see the former president and expect him to speak before he goes into the courtroom. a former legal advisor to michael cohen, robert costello speaking out about the star witness testifying before congress about a ton of things. he believes cohen is lying through his teeth. costello joins us in 30 minutes. a lot of questions for him. first mark your calendars, folks, biden and trump agree to hold two presidential debates to set the stage for showdowns that could make or break their run for the white house. good morning. we're in the red, white and blue today here in new york city. i'm bill hemmer. >> dana: i'm dana perino. it goes by fast. first debate happening june 27th, 131 days before the election. the second debate september 10th. >> bill: these debate

developments happened on a lot of bad news for the president. the post putting the high stakes in perspective. joe's fail mary. while his rival sits in a courtroom for hours on end yet again today, dana. >> dana: kayleigh mcenany is here and we have fox team news coverage. eric shawn and william la jeunesse on my migrant numbers. mark meredith is at the white house where the lawn is green and nice. >> we try for you. the debate over presidential debates appears to be settled for now, both president biden and trump agreeing to two face-to-face meet-ups. the first one set to happen at the end of june. for months now we have seen the former president urge president biden to meet him on the debate stage and biden had said it would depend on trump's behavior and told howard stern he would debate. the first sparring will happen

way earlier than voters are used to seeing. perhaps polling explains why. the latest fox news survey shows among registered voters trump is leading biden by one point within the margin of error. traditionally any incumbent would be polling higher if they have a shot at re-election. now trump says he wants more debates. he posted i would strongly recommend more than two debates and a large venue. biden is afraid of crowds only because he doesn't get them. tell me when, i'll be there, let's rumble. cnn is hosting the first debate says biden and trump have already qualified to participate but robert f. kennedy, jr. needs to least 15% in four national surveys to participate. that has kennedy upset and posted they're trying to exclude me from their debates because they are afraid i would win keeping viable candidates off the debate stage undermines democracy. both cnn and abc announced who

will be moderating the debates. additional details will trickle out between now and june and september. we're also interested to see what impact these debates will have. them owe happen even before either man has been officially nominated by their party. >> dana: mark meredith, thank you so much. >> bill: donald trump has arrived at the courthouse. potential issue for biden looking ahead. in fox polling shows he is behind on the issue of immigration by 15 points. this as he is reportedly planning some sort of executive order on the border and migrant gotaways are surging under his watch. the numbers are through the roof. william la jeunesse has it live in l.a. good morning. >> for three years the white house claimed the border was secure. they knew that wasn't true and now we do, too. thanks to those new figures on gotaways. migrants who cross illegally without getting caught. more gotaways crossed into the

u.s. since biden took office than the previous ten years combined. gotaways are detected by cameras, censors and footprints. as agents grew more frustrated with the open border policy they occasionally shared them with reporters. now you can see why they didn't. migrants evading the border patrol is a low of 86,000 to double that two years later. under president trump gotaways averaged 130,000 a year. then they took off tripling in biden's first year to almost 400,000. jumping again to over 600,000 the last two years. >> we don't know who these people are and not to mention the ones on the terror watch list, the 1.6 million gotaways could include very dangerous actors whether it be murders, rapist, drug dealers and

traffickers. >> figures show the number of gotaways equal the population of new orleans in biden's first year in office. baltimore in the second year, boston last year. meaning 1.6 million migrants entered in just three years of his presidency, more than trump and obama combined that we didn't know about. to be clear these are in addition to the roughly 8 million immigrants who were apprehended by the border patrol since the president took office. most of whom were released and will never leave. back to you. >> bill: thank you, william la jeunesse in los angeles. we'll see whether or not it comes up in debate number one. >> dana: then in moments you will see donald trump walk into court. we understand he is there on the premises. eric shawn is outside the courthouse in lower manhattan. >> hello, the former president arriving just now. first we'll tell you about the

bombshell that could be what potentially may destroy the trial and the case against donald trump. it is the new accusation that michael cohen lied to the jury here when he talked about trump and the stormy daniels deal. as you know earlier this week on monday and tuesday trump's former lawyer and fixer michael cohen said it was former president trump who plashed and approved the arraignment to keep stormy daniels quiet. now a lawyer says cohen said he did it and trump didn't know about the payments to stormy. costello advised cohen in 2018 when he was raided by the f.b.i. in testimony yesterday costello said cohen told him this back then quote, he, cohen, thought the story would be embarrassing for trump and melania and decided he would take care of this himself. when asked if trump had any knowledge of this, cohen told me

no. >> their target is donald trump. so i want you to think carefully now. i said michael, the way this works is if you have truthful information about donald trump, that's clearly what they are looking for, i can have all your legal problems solved by the end of the week. his response, i swear to god, bob, i don't have anything on donald trump. >> trump lawyer could confront cohen during cross examination and ask cohen if he lied to the jury here. he tried to -- trying to seek revenge. the attorney said recall saying on the phone saying boss, i miss you so much, i wish i was down there with you. it's hard for me mott to be there. do you remember that? cohen said, i don't recall that. the former president will likely have a lot to say about robert

costello and the new claims. costello is not a witness here. the former president is not under a gag order when it comes to costello. certainly his attorney could bring it up later today. quite a day to see about the robert costello claims about what michael cohen told him. >> dana: robert costello is our guest after this next guest we have on set with us. >> bill: kayleigh mcenany, co-host of "outnumbered." we had a poll, a lot of numbers came out last night. let's go through them. this relates to the debate and we asked whether or not it is important to the american people and what we found. trump and biden debate, number one, thank you. extremely important to american voters. if you include rfk it's split, 23, 26, 29. what happened in one of the debates back in 2020. roll it. >> i'm not going to answer the question. >> why not answer that question?

>> the question is. >> radical left. >> would you shut up, man? that was a productive segment, wasn't it? keep yapping, man. look. it is hard to get any word in with this clown, excuse me, this person. >> the microphone will be off when the other person is not talking this time. >> probably a good thing. 64% very or somewhat want to see -- or extremely want to see a debate. the biden administration knew they needed to debate. the campaign crafted where they have two debates instead of three on their terms. the challenge for trump is to stick to the issues. he wins on the issues. he has a story to tell. look at the timing of this. after this case, it is likely right after the immunity decision comes out. most people think trump will prevail. in atlanta. biden wants to make it about the legal issues and wants to distract from the substance and

story. if trump can stay on message and not let style detract from substance he can easily win the debate. >> dana: it also comes after "the new york times" poll that solidified the thinking across the board that biden is in denial about the polls and we understand from jacque heinrich that biden is the one who said i want to debate. the staff is like, sir, maybe not. but it is happening because as you know, once the president says i'm doing it, it happens. call for number four about the issues. the poll shows biden prevailing a bit on abortion, healthcare, election, integrity. tied on energy policy. i find surprising. trump has to focus on the issues. trump prevailing on foreign policy, crime and immigration by quite a lot. so if you have that basket of issues that people care about and we know that trump wants to stick on the issues if he can,

he would should bely win the debate. >> if you told me i was losing on the top issues to voters i would want to be dealt a second hand of cards trump has the right hand of cards. the microphone situation will help him. not talking over the other and cutting it off. we've seen of late in the last three weeks a particularly messaged disciplined candidate in trump. the stakes are high. they are personal for him. very personal as he stares down a very perilous legal path should he not win the election. i think you will see a message disciplined trump. biden is counting on trump 1.0 showing up. incumbents have hard times in the first debate. he is counting on that. i don't think he can count on that. >> bill: you have to figure why yesterday they went on offense. we can show from the fox polling. we've seen other numbers that are worse. this is what we found. among black voters down seven points from 2020. among hispanic voters just a point. suburban women down seven

points. moderates down eight points and this is where i think this election is, where you can find the truth how people are feeling about the presidency. under age 30 he is down 14 points. it may sound ageist to say it, but young people see him as an older man and i don't know how more delicately to put that. >> young people not only see him for that but also see the fact they can't afford homes. interest rates are sky high and housing prices are sky high and facing huge grocery bills with inflation. i would not underestimate the power of tiktok. most young people get their news from social media. biden has a tiktok operation. i was thrilled to see the super pac for trump getting out there on tiktok. i think it is not good for society but you have to use it if you are a candidate. you can't count on young people. if you want to try to make sure those young people are driven by the polls make sure you are on

tiktok and social media to bring the voters to your column on election day. >> dana: what about the idea the vice presidential debate will be in the end of july? >> end of july. there needs to be another debate. another debate closer to election day. i think we'll end up seeing one. depends how it goes. we could have the first debate and biden says it was brutal. time to parse these in. a big debate. first time kamala harris needs to bring in suburban women. biden was doing best. the vp candidate will have the moment to try to win over suburban women. >> bill: trump has been saying any time, any where, they have an empty lectern at the stage. i think trump jumped the gun and went too fast before he could negotiate the qualifications for the debate itself. there is a real -- what trump wants is biden to walk in, everybody to look and say oh my. there is a real good chance they

are sitting at a table and the camera comes up and they are already in position. that moment will be gone. >> there will be no crowd, no energy. and you will be sitting before a moderator who called the trump presidency a nightmare. so this is definitely home territory for joe biden in my opinion. trump can compensate for that but it will be a different dynamic. heightened expectations for trump and low expectations for biden you want to try to reverse that ahead of six weeks. >> dana: greg gutfeld said biden is an amazing debater and do so well in this debate. >> exactly. a good way to put it. >> bill: while we wait to hear from the former president, we're watching the u.s. supreme court where a decision impacting trump from prosecution could come down at 10:00 eastern. do we think it might be that early? we'll see. court is in session. >> dana: happening right now new jersey senator bob menendez back in court for his federal

corruption trial. opening statements about to get underway as his lawyers throw his wife right under the bus. >> moments from now you hear from the former legal advisor to michael cohen, robert costello. he had stunning testimony before congress yesterday. he calls cohen a serial liar and he will tell us his story in moments. innovation in health care means nothing if no one can afford it. ♪ at evernorth, we're helping to unlock barriers. ♪ using our 35 plus years of pharmacy benefits management experience to save businesses billions while boosting medication adherence. helping plan sponsors and their members be at their best. that's wonder made possible. evernorth health services. why choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 36 months. shop now at sleepnumber.com

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seen the conflicted. he should not be the judge. not be allowed to have anything to do with this case. he should be so far away from this case. outside we take a look. it looks like we're at fort knox. so many police. they don't allow people to come. you are allowed -- we aren't allowed to have anything here. they have more police and more assistant d.a.s i've never seen anything like it over what everybody. there is no crime here, jonathan turley, every single person, gregg jarrett, andy mccarthy. look anyone, mark levin, great lawyers and legal scholars. every single one says there is no crime. the crime is that they're doing this case. this was a case that wasn't going to be done and then when i announced i was running -- they could have done it seven years ago. it could have been brought seven years ago but they wanted it

smack in the middle of the election. these are very dishonest people we're dealing with. outside is like fort knox. you can't get within three blocks of this case if you are a civilian. what they are doing is election interference. the polls are through the roof. one came out way up in north carolina, georgia, nevada, way up in arizona. overall leading by five, six, seven points, crooked joe biden. the most crooked president we've ever had. the worst president in the history of our country. we have a lot of congressmen and some senators down today and they are all up in arms over this. they can't believe it. we have quite a few congressman. you will talk to them in a little while. i want to thank you very much for coming. at least we are getting the word out. it is very unfair. i would like to be in these various states where i should be campaigning like anybody else.

this is a biden trial. it comes out of the white house and the department of justice. this is all them. in fact, a lead person from the d.o.j. is running the trial. so biden's office is running this trial. this trial is a scam and it is a sham and it shouldn't happen. thank you very much. >> will you testify, mr. trump? >> will you testify, mr. trump? >> bill: he has had decent news outside the courtroom. talking about the polls and some of our polling we put out last evening shows the election in his favor just by a hair nationally. state by state you see trump has an edge in a lot of the battleground states. that's his main message right now. what does he say in court? we turn to our legal minds. >> dana: thank you both for being here jonathan turley and

andy mccarthy. jonathan turley, what do you think they have to hit first from the defense point of view today? >> first of all, note that in the president's remarks his last line could be argued by bragg to violate the gag order since it was a reference to company anglo. he is allowed to criticize bragg and the judge. i don't know if they'll view that as a violation. the gag order is way too broad. what we'll see today with michael cohen is the closing in on the witness. the first day of cross examination was a partial day. to some degree those questions can be a bit of targeting shots to get a good bean on a witness. then you give the broadsides. today the expectation is they'll deliver those broadsides. this is obviously a target-rich environment and made even more so with the testimony of cohen's

former lawyer, who is directly contradicting what he just said under oath before this court. >> bill: you are talking about robert costello who testified before congress yesterday. we'll speak to him coming up in ten minutes. for planning purposes for our audience, court is out at 4:00 this afternoon, andy. there is no court tomorrow. the former president can attend his son's graduation. then we come back on monday, i do believe, right? where do you start today? do you keep cohen on the stand all day long? where do you want to leave jurors going into an extended weekend? >> they have a lot of attacking of cohen yet to do. i also think that it's a two-edged sword for them and they have to be careful about this. to my mind the big thing here is that the ndas are legal. if the ndas are legal, a lot of this other stuff is just a bunch

of noise and what i would be a little fearful about is it's true that cohen is the only witness regarding trump's state of mind with respect to the bookkeeping arrangement the way in the business records they reflected the booking of the reimbursement of the nda. so since he is the only witness, he is not corroborated on that, bragg has weisselberg sitting in ryker's island. if he had something helpful to the state to stay that bragg would have called him. he didn't. so that part of the case rests on cohen. they want to go after cohen on that because he is the only link of trump's state of mind to the way the records are booked. my point is if the nda is legal, it doesn't matter how the records were booked as long as bragg can't prove fraud and i don't think he can. so you want to make sure the

jury doesn't think you are afraid of the way that the records were booked and afraid of the ndas. you don't want to make them look like they're radioactive. if they're legal, then he wins the case. >> bill: the a.g. merrick garland is speaking in washington. not sure what this is about. he is taking questions before he leaves for an f.b.i. memorial. >> that's what we're doing here. we're protecting our ability to continue to do high-profile and sensitive investigations and we'll continue to do that. >> it now seems -- vanishingly small that the two jack smith federal cases are going to begin trial, let alone finish trial this year. what does that say about the pace of the justice system and confidence in this justice

department? >> look, the special counsel brought both cases last year. he appropriately requested speedy trials. the matter is now in the hands of the judiciary and i won't be able to comment further. >> we have to go to the f.b.i. memorial. thank you. >> bill: few pointed questions about jack smith special counsel whether he gets off the ground before the big election. back to andy and jonathan. you heard that. we weren't expecting garland to come out headed to an f.b.i. memorial. where is jack smith's case now? >> well, right now it's dead in the water and the question is what the supreme court will do on the immunity question. if the court sends that back and says, you know, we think there is a more nuanced approach here. we don't like the extreme interpretations by either the trump team or lower court, that will require findings of fact. that will require time, and i

can't imagine how they could possibly get the trial before the election. but it's really amazing to see the loaded questions from some of the -- for the attorney general what does it say about the justice system suggesting it is going too slowly. jack smith is the one who has been saying that trump should not be entitled to what most defendants are entitled to, things like in bank reviews and cutting short the appellate process and speeding through these cases. it is really jack smith that is asking for exceptions to the standard procedures and scheduling of cases. >> dana: the press did not ask about the hunter biden trial that's about to get underway and obviously getting under biden's skin. >> trials with an s. it is june 3rd is the gun case and june 20th tentatively is the tax case out in california.

you have to think that the administration is those cases not be tried. he was willing to plead guilty to the charges as long as it was arranged he wouldn't suffer much in consequences from them. the gun case is very bad for biden. the tax case is even worse because it is about hunter earning revenue from peddling joe's political influence. i have to think there is furious behind the scenes plea negotiations going on but they have to be careful because of the sweetheart deal that has already blown up in this case. >> bill: stand by. in a moment we'll introduce our audience to robert costello, cohen's attorney six years ago and laid whoppers before congress yesterday. we'll ask him about that momentarily when we continue. first a quick commercial break. . you can schedule in just a few clicks.

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>> bill: let's get this going now. the judge is on the bench. merchan is in there. getting emails from reporters inside the courtroom. greets the parties, asked if anything needed to be talking about regarding scheduling. the attorney for president trump asked to approach and they are now having a side bar. with that let's bring in a former legal advisor to michael cohen, robert costello who represented cohen at the start of the federal investigation and released from his attorney/client confidentality agreement and why you can talk to us. thank you for your time today and we watched you before congress yesterday. that was something else. this is part of what you had said to congress yesterday. you said cohen told you, i swear to god, bob, i don't have anything on donald trump. now, you testified before alvin bragg's grand jury. did you tell them what you told

congress yesterday? >> well, it's interesting you bring that up because when -- before i testified on a monday, before the grand jury, i gave alvin bragg's assistant d.a.s the courtesy of an hour and a half zoom conference where i told them all of the exculpatory material that i had that they were supposed to put before the grand jury. but when i appeared before the grand jury, they were asking me questions that in my opinion -- i've been a federal prosecutor myself, deputy chief of the criminal division in the southern district of new york. those questions they were asking me were not going to illicit the exculpatory information that i had. so i began to expand upon my answers and the d.a.'s office was trying to shut me down saying that i had finished my answer. and i told them that when i'm in the middle of answering a question i'll decide when i finish my answer and i asked

them not to interrupt me again. basically they only put in a small cherry-picked group of emails i presented, maybe 200 to 300 emails and text messages to them. i had them with me luckily in chronological order. they put two or three into evidence. i asked them are you going to put the rest of them into evidence and they said no. and i said remember, there is a court reporter there. i said why not? they said there is a legal issue. he said hearsay. first of all it's admissible in a grand jury. not an objection. i played along. hearsay, play close attention to the next two sentences. i said these documents were made in the regular course of business. it was the regular course of business to make and maintain documents such as these at or about the dates indicated. you and i know but the grand jurors don't know that makes these documents business records and you know and i know that the grand jurors don't know that

business records are an exception to the rule. are you going to put the rest of the documents into evidence? and they indicated most likely no. so i simply said to the grand jurors i said you people should demand these documents. you should demand to see everything in chronological order so you get a real view of what michael cohen was like in those days at that moment in time. i said and then ask yourself this question. why are they trying to keep these documents from me? well after that i left the grand jury. i have no idea whether they put the documents into evidence or what happened. but subsequently donald trump was indicted. and you have seen the fruits of that indictment in this trial, which is a trial about something that is not a crime. when i met with michael cohen on the first day at the regency oh hole when he was suicidal by his own admission, i explained to him non-disclosure agreements, ndas are perfectly legal because

he kept on saying why are they trying to put me in jail for an nda? i explained to him that's not why they are trying to put you in jail. they think you have done other things. what are they? he denied having done anything else. i didn't do anything illegal. i'm cooperating with the special counsel, i'm cooperating with congress. because he forget to tell us that he lied to congress. but he was desperately seeking according to his own words, an escape route. i want you guys to tell me how to get out of this. he saw these enormous legal problems coming his way. they were so bad in his mind he was willing to kill himself. i kept on going back and suggesting to him listen, michael, if you have something truthful on donald trump, now is the time to cooperate. and he kept on saying over and over again ten to 20 times, i swear to god, bob, i don't have anything on donald trump. i even said to him michael, think about this? isn't it easier to cooperate

against donald trump if you have truthful information than it is to kill yourself? the answer is obvious. that was his moment in time. if he had something truthful to say i'm willing to cooperate. he didn't take that. he kept on saying i have nothing on donald trump. and then when we got into the discussion of the stormy daniels nda he said specifically -- and i cross-examined him on this -- this was my idea. it was his idea to take care of the nda because he had been contacted by a lawyer for stormy daniels who said she was going to claim that donald trump had sex with her. cohen said i didn't believe the allegation but nevertheless it would be embarrassing to melania. i decided to take care of this myself. now, he took out a home equity loan for $130,000 and used that and he did tell us that he got repaid later. we didn't get into the details of that because that was not

what we were focused on at the moment. we were trying to figure out what was michael cohen going to be charged with by the southern district of new york. then as you know, ultimately he pled guilty to eight counts, seven of which had nothing to do with donald trump and after that attempted to cooperate by telling fibs to the u.s. attorney's office that rudy giuliani and i conspired to obstruct justice and tamper with a witness, the witness being michael cohen. with all these emails and text messages i had it was absolutely clear there was no truth whatsoever to that. so the u.s. attorney said to michael cohen in order for us to investigate this you have to waive the attorney-client privilege. when they presented me with the waiver i gave them the documents they requested and went down and interviewed for a couple of hours with two f.b.i. agents and two attorneys. at the end of the interview everybody was laughing because i

showed how ludicrous the accusation was. they never used michael cohen again. they didn't indict donald trump for anything and they didn't use michael cohen and no credit for his cooperation. that's a lesson the manhattan d.a.'s office should have learned but they didn't. >> dana: you said the grand jury didn't get to hear some of the things you thought they should hear. for all of us listening to you now it is like wow, the jury should probably hear this. have you been subpoenaed by the defense and called to testify in new york at this trial? >> i have not been subpoenaeded. whether i will be called to testify hasn't been decided yet. it probably depends a lot on what will happen today in court. and then what would happen on redirect by the district attorney's office. if i were in the attorney's shoes that's a analysis i would make.

>> dana: would you call you to testify if you were in his shoes? >> yes, because i'm a reliable person. >> bill: go back to this meeting with cohen in 2016. it is late october, early november. the election hasn't happened yet. >> no, no, no, no. it is april. it's april. >> bill: what year? >> 2018. >> bill: gotcha. can you explain how cohen could pro cure the nda on his own, right? he said his wife ran the house. he went out and got a home equity loan, okay? they are living in some pretty fat apartments on park avenue. they have the money on the home equity loan if they want it. how does he sign it without his wife knowing, which he has testified to, and why does he do it then and is it solely for the purpose that he thought donald trump would give him a good job in the administration if he were to win?

>> well, that's multiple questions there. number one, he got a hone that he levered to it for 130,000. the reason he did it that way, he told us -- i haven't seen the paperwork. he told us he didn't want melania to know and didn't want his own wife to know. he said his wife handles the family finances and if he took any money out of any of his accounts, she would know it right away and according to him she would ask him 100 questions that he didn't want to answer. that's his statement. i haven't seen the paperwork for this loan so i don't know what he represented to the bank. chances are that he didn't tell the truth on that application. he didn't say this is going to be money to take care of a non-disclosure agreement. but i don't know that. i'm just guessing. what was your other question? >> bill: i had a few. can i ask you another one?

why was allen weisselberg not been a witness in this case to date? the long-time accountant, ran the trump organization for more than 40 years. >> well, i think if you listen to andy mccarthy, who you just had on. he gave a very good analysis. and that is we are presuming that allen weisselberg does not have any information that would be helpful to the district attorney. if they thought he had helpful information they would bring him from ryker's island to the courthouse and have him testify. the fact they haven't done that leads one to reasonably conclude that maybe weisselberg doesn't have information that helps him, rather it helps donald trump. i think andy mccarthy is 100% correct on that. >> dana: a couple of questions if you don't mind. here is one. if cohen did all of this on his own but the jury sees that donald trump signed the checks, does that kind of evidence go to

the prosecution's point? >> i don't think so. listen, this is a prosecution for a false statement in a business record. frankly, none of this tawdry stuff should have been allowed in. it will get reversed if there is a conviction but after the election probably. that's what they want. >> dana: okay. >> the fact that donald trump signs the checks doesn't mean anything. do you know how many checks he sits there and signs while he is president of the united states? he might be a little busy on something else. >> dana: do you know judge merchan? >> no, not at all. never met him. >> dana: you have experience with new york juries. what do you think about this particular jury and what they might be thinking about this case as they get ready for jury instructions fairly soon? >> well, it's new york city. so i understand that 87% of the

voters voted not for donald trump in the last election. so you have to assume that there is trump derangement syndrome out there and that this jury will be reflective of that. there are some people on this jury who will vote to convict him whether or not the evidence. you need one or two reasonable people to hang the jury. if i was betting on this, i would bet that's probably going to be the result. they may actually just get so disgusted and acquit him. it's hard to do that when 87% of the people vote for the other guy. go ahead. >> bill: we're told right now the side bar continues. so it has been going on for 15 minutes. maybe they are talking about you as a witness. you are a friend of rudy giuliani and how you came into this orbit by way of new york and southern district based on your resume.

this is one of your emails to michael cohen. this was april of 2018. we can put it on screen. giuliani asked me to tell you he knows how tough it is on you and your family and make sure to tell the president. thank you for opening the back channel of communication and asked me to keep in touch. why was it necessary for you to be a back channel at that time? >> it wasn't and that phrase was not mine. that was a word that rudy used. probably an unfortunate term. there was nothing sneaky about this. i was representing cohen. by the way, that first meeting at the regency michael cohen lied to the jury already about that. he says that rudy giuliani and i were conspiring on even on that day. rudy wasn't even representing donald trump until a couple of days later. you will see that there is an email from me informing michael

cohen did you see the report in the newspaper rudy will now represent trump. that's good for you, i know rudy and rudy knows me. the reason why it's good when you are talking to a lawyer representing somebody else, if you've known that lawyer for 40, 50 years and you know that the person is trustworthy, it makes things a lot easier. it's that simple. and what cohen did -- go ahead. >> bill: you said he told you ten times, 12 times i don't have anything on donald trump. why would -- so his story is entirely different now. he has done a 180. so maybe the jurors believe him today and they would not believe something from six years ago, robert. >> the rest of the proof doesn't support michael cohen. by the way, one thing you are not reporting yet is that besides making that statement i swear to god i don't have anything on donald trump, he

also said more times than that answer, guys, i want you to understand, i will do whatever the f i have to do. i will never spend a day in jail and then he would slam his hand on the conference room table. what does that mean to you? that means this guy is saying i will lie, cheat, steal, do whatever i have to do, i'm not going to jail. he did go to jail. and who do you think he blames for that? and why do you think he names his most recent book revenge? quite frankly, he is using this to monetize himself because this is the only way this guy can make money right now, selling books and t-shirts and trinkets and being the ultimate anti-trumper. and because he was doing that on tv, and i saw that, i said i can't sit by and let this guy tell the grand jury, tell the jurors now this false story when he told us the opposite story at

a moment when he was desperately seeking a way out and was willing to kill himself. and certainly cooperating with truthful information is a lot easier. but he didn't have any truthful information. >> dana: that leads me to a question i was thinking about asking you. you have had time with michael cohen, i have not. i'm wondering about how you think his state of mind is now, because as you said he was suicidal when he first met you. he did go to jail. now written a book called revenge and said to the prosecution he does want trump to be convicted. and he is getting some strange new respect from liberal media and commentators, even actresses and comedians on the left wing perspective. i wonder how he thinks about that? does he respond to that kind of flattery? also the way he can continue to make money to support his family. >> the answer is both. he does respond to the flattery.

he is looking to make money. and he has been making money. he has a podcast apparently called it's latin that means through my fault. it's through his fault we're all talking about this subject. >> bill: the side bar is over. lasted 20 minutes. the judge said i apologize for the whispering. the jury is now being brought into the courtroom and so is michael cohen. so we'll see what gets underway momentarily. final question. do you think michael cohen was telling the truth in 2018? maybe he was lying six years ago. maybe he has flipped again. >> that's a possibility. however. >> i was in the courtroom the other day and it was a well-rehearsed show between the prosecutor and michael cohen, q and a, q and a, flip the page.

he could almost anticipate the question. he was very well-rehearsed. if you are saying he is lying now, who is to say he wasn't lying then when you first came across him? >> i will tell you why i believe that what he told us in 2018 was the truth. number one, as i said he was suicide all desperately looking for a way out. the way out was clear, to cooperate against donald trump if he had truthful information. he didn't take that way out. all day long he said i don't have anything. but i will do whatever the f i have to do, i will never spend a day in jail. here is the other thing. donald trump, when he went to washington, d.c., when he was elected, he took the whole trump inner circle to washington with one exception, michael cohen. they left him back in new york. michael cohen was very unhappy about that. as i testified yesterday, during one of my conversations with

michael cohen when i asked him michael, what did you think you would happen if you did go to washington, d.c.? he said i thought i could be attorney general of the united states or at least chief of staff to the president. now, as ludicrous as that sounds, i thought i was the only one that he had said that to until i noticed that during cross examination of i think it was stormy daniels lawyer cohen actually said that to him. your adversary and you are negotiating with this guy for an nda and telling him how annoyed you are where donald trump didn't bring you to washington with attorney general or chief of staff? he went to jail and he is left alone in new york. i think that's his motivation now. >> dana: robert costello, thank you so much for spending this time with us. very valuable and insightful. >> bill: maybe we'll see you again. >> dana: it sounds like we

might. >> bill: there are 11 republicans in the house today. white shirt, red tie today. so he is sporting the red, white and blue as well. donald trump is there now with the jury and michael cohen is on the stand and we'll get our first read-out, first email from our producers inside the courtroom right after this.

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>> dana: fox news alert. we're back after the amazing interview we had with robert costello. michael cohen is on the stand now. cross examination of him by trump's lawyers is continuing. we found out the judge said that because of the holiday schedule they might have to work on wednesdays. so hardest hit might be the biden team's campaign t-shirt sales after that little dig that the president made at president trump yesterday. andy mccarthy, you were listening to the robert costello interview. i want to you react to this

part. just the hear it again this is what he said about grand jury testimony when he was called. watch. >> i presented maybe two to 300 emails and text messages to them. i had them with me luckily in chronological order. they put two or three into evidence. i asked them are you going to put the rest of them into evidence? they said no. they said there is a legal issue with them. i said what is the legal issue? he said hearsay. >> dana: talk about that for a moment. >> there is no hearsay in the grand jury. in fact, the grand jury can investigate rumors and all that stuff. the hearsay rules apply at trial, not in the grand jury. bob is right about that. there was no reason on the basis of a hearsay objection not to put -- you could put newspaper articles in front of the grand jury. no reason not to put that information which may have been very important in front of the grand jury. >> dana: he also fel