captioning funded by cbs and ford. we go further, so you can. >> tonight, "60 minutes" and the candidates, beginning with the interview many americans are talking about. you have unemployment claims going up. you have covid cases going up. i mean, it's like the gods have suddenly decided to conspire against you-- >> i don't think so at all, no. i think we've done-- >> well, what about the-- >> --a great job with covid. >> but the numbers are going up, sir. and we hoped would have been more productive. tonight, the president, the vice president, and what happened-- >> okay, that's enough. i'll see you later. >> ...when mr. trump left the room.

be careful. ( ticking ) >> let's take back this country! >> you have held a steady lead in the national and state polls, but so did hillary clinton four years ago. could donald trump still win this? >> sure. i don't underestimate how he plays. >> former vice president biden and senator kamala harris tell us about their vision for the country. >> i think we're going to have to make big institutional changes. >> proposals for new taxes and questions about their historic partnership. you're very different in the policies that you've supported in the past. you're considered the most liberal united states senator. ( ticking ) >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm bill whitaker. >> i'm anderson cooper. >> i'm norah o'donnell. >> i'm scott pelley. the candidates, tonight, on "60 minutes."

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>> lesley stahl: tonight, in what has become an election year tradition for "60 minutes," conversations with the major party candidates for president and vice president of the united states. later, norah o'donnell interviews former vice president joe biden and his running mate senator kamala harris, but we begin with president donald trump and vice president mike pence. i spoke with the president on tuesday in the roosevelt room at the white house. we had prepared to talk about the many issues and questions

facing the president, but in what has become an all-too- public dust-up, the conversation was cut short. it began politely, but ended regrettably, contentiously. are you ready for some tough questions? >> president donald trump: you're gonna be fair. >> stahl: are you g-- >> president trump: just be- >> stahl: i'm gonna be fair. >> president trump: just be fair. >> stahl: but you're okay with some tough questions? >> president trump: no, i'm not. i mean-- >> stahl: (laugh) you're not okay with tough questions? >> president trump: i want 'em to be fair. you-- you don't ask biden tough questions. >> president trump: okay. are you ready-- >> stahl: you ready? everybody ready? so we have the pandemic. on your watch, we've had racial strife, we've had looting. why do you want this job? why do you want to be president again? >> president trump: because we've done a great job and it's not finished yet. and when i finish, this country will be in a position like it hasn't been maybe ever. the economy is already roaring back. and other people aren't gonna bring it back, certainly the person that we're dealing with is not gonna bring it back. they're gonna raise taxes.

>> stahl: let me ask you what you think your-- the biggest domestic priority is for you right now. >> president trump: well-- >> stahl: or next year. >> president trump: ultimately, le-- let me-- and i-- i'll tell you, it was happening. we created the greatest economy in the history of our country. and the other side was-- >> stahl: you know that-- you know-- >> president trump: --coming in- >> stahl: --that's not true. >> president trump: it is totally true. >> stahl: no. it isn't, but president trump did have an impressive string of economic accomplishments. >> president trump: we had the best stock market price ever and we're getting close to that price again. the unemployment numbers for african americans, for asian americans, for hispanic americans. virtually every number was the best. and what was happening is things were coming together- >> stahl: w-- i asked you what's the-- priority? i mean, those are all the good things- >> president trump: the priority now-- >> stahl: --what do you have to solve? >> president trump: --is to get back to normal. get back to where we were. to have the economy rage and be great with jobs and everybody be happy. and that's where we're going, and that's-- --where we're heading. >> stahl: and who is our biggest foreign adversary? >> president trump: i would say

china. they're an adversary. they're a-- >> stahl: they're the biggest? >> president trump: -- competitor. they're a foe in many ways, but they're an adversary. i think what happened was disgraceful, should never have happened. should-- they should never have allowed this plague to get out of china and go throughout the world. 188 countries. should never have happened. >> stahl: four years ago, you were behind in the polls, as you are now, and you pulled it out. but this time, you have kind of a double migraine. you have unemployment claims going up. you have covid cases going up. i mean, it's like the gods have suddenly decided-- decided to conspire against you-- >> president trump: i don't think so at all, no. i think we've done-- >> stahl: well, what about the-- >> president trump: --a great job with covid. >> stahl: sir, excuse me, cases are up in about 40 states. >> president trump: okay-- you know why cases are up also? because we do more testing. the fake news media loves to say cases are up. the fact is, we've done a very, very good job-- >> stahl: cases are up. >> president trump: we have done-- that's right because we're doing so much testing. >> stahl: there is increased

testing, but according to the covid tracking project, that doesn't account for all of the rise in new cases sweeping the country, or the 40% increase in hospitalizations in the past month. when you're out there saying we've turned the corner, this thing is disappearing-- >> president trump: that's right. we have turned-- >> stahl: --and people can see-- >> president trump: --the corner. we have turned the corner. understand the disease. we understand the elderly, and we are taking care of them like nobody's ever taken care of them. so we are taking care of our people. >> stahl: okay. let me-- let me ask you something about suburban women. >> president trump: yeah. suburban women will you please like me? please, please. i saved your damn neighborhood, okay? >> stahl: you said the other day to suburban women, "will you please like me? please, please-- >> president trump: oh, i didn't say that.

you know, that's so misleading, the way y-- i say jokingly, "suburban women, you should love me because i'm giving you security." and i got rid of the worst regulation-- see, the way you said that-- >> stahl: yeah? >> president trump: --is why people think of you and everyone else as fake news. i said kiddingly, "suburban women, you should love me." i got rid of a regulation-- >> stahl: you said, quote-- >> president trump: --that would bring low-income housing into suburbia that is destroying-- that would destroy suburbia. and i said that in a joking way. the way you have it, it's like, "oh," like i'm begging. i w-- i'm kidding. play it, and i'm kidding. that is such a misleading question, lesley. >> stahl: but you're behind with suburban women in the polls. >> president trump: i doubt it. i doubt it. i really doubt it. >> stahl: one of the reasons is that they don't feel you're being upfront about the pandemic. are you deliberately downplaying it? >> president trump: we're rounding the corner. we're doing well. we're doing well. we understand the disease. we've done a good job. we've done maybe a great job. what we haven't done a good job

on is convincing people like you because you're really quite impossible to convince, but that's okay. and the economy now is coming back and it's coming back very strongly, and people see that, lesley. >> stahl: there are more unemployment claims-- i mean, the economy has kind of-- >> president trump: lesley, we just picked up-- >> stahl: --stalled a little bit. >> president trump: --11.4 million jobs. it's the largest number in the history of our country- >> stahl: it is true that of the 22 million jobs lost since february, 11.4 million have been restored. yet unemployment claims are running at historically high levels. but the president sees the economy as his strongest suit. >> president trump: gallup did a poll: 56% of the people said that they're better off now, during a pandemic, than they were during obama and biden. 56%. it was a record number. >> stahl: can we go back for one second to the pandemic, because you called dr. fauci and other

health officials idiots. >> president trump: where did i call him an idiot? >> stahl: you called them "idiots." i wonder if you think-- >> president trump: well, he's been wrong a lot. i like him, but he's been wrong a lot. >> stahl: i wonder if you think that masks don't work. >> president trump: i feel masks possibly work. but certainly you want to stay away a certain distance, socially distance, et cetera. but i would say a mask works. and i have nothing against masks. and i tell people to wear masks. i have no problem-- >> stahl: well, tell me then about these rallies you've been having-- >> president trump: a lot of people are wearing masks, and they're-- outside. >> stahl: --with people-- a lot of people-- aren't. i'm-- i'm watching all these people jammed in together, and i'm seeing most of them without masks. and i'm wondering the message that you're sending with these pictures coming across television-- >> president trump: take a look. yesterday we were in arizona, record-setting rallies. numbers of people like nobody's seen before. >> stahl: you used to have bigger rallies. >> president trump: no, these are much bigger than i ever had. >> stahl: okay, i don't want to bicker over that. >> president trump: you know,

you're-- you're-- >> stahl: tell me about the mask wearing. >> president trump: --so negative. you're so negative. these are the biggest rallies we've ever had. you just come in here with that negative attitude. these are the biggest rallies we've ever had. >> stahl: but i can't believe, after what happened in the rose garden here, after the announcement, with all the people getting sick-- >> president trump: yeah. >> stahl: --that you are not being more strongly encouraging about wearing masks-- >> prsident trump: i am. >> stahl: --at your rallies- >> president trump: i tell people to wear masks-- >> stahl: but you don't. >> president trump: lesley, we hand out thousands of masks at every rally. >> stahl: but you look out and they're not wearing them. you don't get up there and say, "look. you know, come on. i don't want you to--" >> president trump: what's your- - what's your next-- >> stahl: --"get sick." >> president trump: --question, lesley? we're outside. the rallies are bigger than they've ever been. there's more enthusiasm than we've ever had. there has never been anything like what you're witnessing now, and you'll see that soon. >> stahl: okay, i'll ask you another health question, okay? told you. you promised that there was gonna be a new health package, a health care plan. >> president trump: yeah. >> stahl: you said that it was,

"gonna be great," you said "it's ready," "it's gonna be ready"-- >> president trump: it will be. >> stahl: "it'll be here in two weeks." "it's gonna be like nothing you've ever seen before." and of course we haven't seen it. so why didn't you develop a health plan? >> president trump: it is developed, it is fully developed. it's going to be announced very soon-- >> stahl: when? >> president trump: when we see what happens with obamacare. >> stahl: if the supreme court ends this-- obamacare-- >> president trump: well, we're gonna have to see what happens. i think-- i hope that they end it. it'll be so good if they end it- - >> stahl: and if they end it people with preexisting conditions will be stranded. and that's just a fact. >> president trump: no, no. it's wrong. >> stahl: no-- >> president trump: it's wrong. a new plan will happen. >> stahl: but will-- >> president trump: and we won't do anything-- will and is. we won't do anything and no plan unless we have preexisting conditions covered. >> stahl: with little more than a week till the election, the president has been barnstorming the swing states where the polls are tight, including florida, wisconsin, pennsylvania and here in michigan.

can you characterize your supporters? >> president trump: yeah, i think i can. people that love our country. more than anything else and they like to see our country thrive. >> stahl: but do you think that when you hold rallies and encourage people to say, "lock her up," the way you--- >> president trump: i don't encourage them. they say it. >> stahl: and you enjoy it-- you don't say, "don't do that--" >> president trump: hillary clinton, let-- let me just tell you-- hillary clinton deleted, she deleted 33,000 emails after she got a subpoena from the united states congress. >> stahl: but why is this still an issue? why do people, they're not gonna vote on that-- >> president trump: i think it's an issue. to me it's an issue. >> stahl: she ran last time. >> president trump: excuse me. when they say "lock her up," it's not me. they say it. it starts, it-- it ends up being-- >> stahl: you encourage it. >> president trump: i don't encourage it. >> stahl: yes, you do. >> president trump: no. if i mention her name about something, they go crazy. >> stahl: well, what about the governor of michigan? governor gretchen whitmer was the target of a kidnapping plot by an armed militia group. >> president trump: it was our justice department that is the

one that's helping her. my justice department, if you call it that-- >> stahl: yes, yes the f.b.i. >> president trump: it was our justice department that's helping her. and, you know, people aren't so, they're not liking her so much, 'cause she's got everybody locked down. you've gotta get your governor to open up your state, okay.: l! lock her up! lock her up! >> president trump: lock 'iem all up! >> stahl: you are very powerful, and the people who love you, love you with passion. and if you go after somebody the way you've been going after her, they take it to heart-- >> president trump: i haven't gone after her. >> stahl: --and they, then there are plots and threats, and the same with dr.-- >> president trump: i haven't gone after her. >> stahl: you did. >> president trump: i've helped her. it was our justice department-- >> stahl: you did go after-- you-- you criticized her-- >> president trump: --that's helping her. oh, i do criticize her, yeah. >> stahl: well, that's going after her-- >> president trump: i think the way she locked down michigan is a disgrace. >> stahl: but when you-- >> president trump: the way she

closed churches in michigan is a disgrace. i-- yeah, i think it's disgraceful what she's done. i do. >> stahl: you want to lock her up? >> president trump: and, by the way, that's other-- of course, i don't want to lock her up. why would i lock her up? >> stahl: because you were in front of a rally of people saying it, encouraging it. >> president trump: lesley, it's such a vicious thing you just said. i never said, "lock up the governor of michigan." i would never say that. >> stahl: do you take any responsibility for the country being divided against itself? do you feel that? >> president trump: i'd like not to, but, you know, perhaps everybody has to take a little responsibility for it. but when people put out phony witch hunts, you know, when they spy on your campaign, you have to fight back. and if you don't fight back, you're not sitting here very long. you go back home. you go back home to mommy. >> stahl: the president's accusations against the biden family, the abrupt end of our conversation and vice president mike pence's assessment of what happened, when we return. mike pence's assessment of what happened, when we return. ( ticking )

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subject to subject, our conversation grew more tense. president trump brought up what he calls the unfairness of the fake media. most prominently: a lack of coverage of his unproven and unverified charges that former vice president joe biden and his son hunter have received millions of dollars in corrupt payments from a russian oligarch and a chinese billionaire. >> president trump: i wish you would interview joe biden like you interview me. it would be so good. you know what? >> stahl: you like this, i thought- >> president trump: the, the-- >> stahl: i thought you liked sparring-- >> president trump: i don't mind it. i don't mind it. but when i watch him walk out of a store, and he's walking with an ice cream. and the question the media asks him, "what kind of ice cream? what flavor ice cream do you have?" and he's in the midst of a scandal.

>> stahl: he's not. >> president trump: and he's taking >> stahl: he's not, no-- >> president trump: of course he is, lesley. >> stahl: come on. >> president trump: of course he is. it's the biggest -- second- biggest scandal. the biggest scandal was when they spied on my campaign. they spied on my campaign, lesley. >> stahl: well, there's no-- real evidence of that. >> president trump: of course there is. it's all over-- >> stahl: no-- >> president trump: --the place. lesley, they-- >> stahl: sir-- >> president trump: --spied on my campaign and they got caught- - >> stahl: can i-- can i say something? you know, this is "60 minutes." and we can't put on things we can't verify-- >> president trump: no, you won't put it on because it's bad for biden. look, let me tell you-- >> stahl: we can't put on things we can't verify-- >> president trump: lesley, they spied on-- >> stahl: and-- >> president trump: --on my campaign. >> stahl: well, we can't verify that-- >> president trump: it's been totally verified. >> stahl: no. >> president trump: it's been-- just go down and get the papers. they spied on my campaign, they got caught. >> stahl: no. >> president trump: and then they went much further than that and they got caught. and you will see that, lesley. and you know that. but you just don't want to put it on the air-- >> stahl: no-- as a matter of fact, i don't know that. >> president trump: okay. >> stahl: and you're out there-- >> president trump: so why don't you get back to your interview, and let's go. >> stahl: do you think that your tweets and your name-calling are turning people off?

>> president trump: no, i think i wouldn't be here if i didn't have social media. but the media is fake. and frankly, if i didn't have social media, i'd have no way of getting out my voice. >> stahl: do you know what you told me a long time ago when i asked why you keep saying "fake media?" >> president trump: yeah? yeah? >> stahl: you said to me, "i say that because i need to discredit you so that when you say negative things about me, no one will believe you"-- >> president trump: i don't have to discredit you. >> stahl: but that's what you told me-- >> president trump: you've discredited yourself. >> stahl: you know, i didn't want to have this kind of angry- - >> president trump: of course you did. >> stahl: no, i didn't- >> president trump: of course you did-- >> stahl: --no, i didn't. >> president trump: well, then you brought up a lot of subjects that were inappropriately brought up-- >> stahl: well, i said, i'm gonna ask you tough questions. but-- >> president trump: they were inappropriately brought up. right from the beginning. no, your first question was, "this is going to be tough questions." you don't ask joe biden, i saw your interview with joe, the interview with joe biden. >> stahl: i never did a joe biden interview- >> president trump: it was a joke. the interview, "60 minutes." i see joe biden, giving softball after softball.

i've seen all of his interviews. he's never been asked a question that's hard. >> stahl: okay, but forget him for a minute. you're president-- >> president trump: no, but you start with me. >> stahl: you're president, and- >> president trump: excuse me, lesley, you started with me. your first statement was, "are you ready for tough questions?" >> stahl: are you? >> president trump: that's no way to talk. that's no way to talk. >> lesley, one, one second. >> stahl: at this point, one of our producers interrupted to advise about the time remaining in the interview. >> president trump: i think we have enough of an interview here, hope. okay? that's enough. let's go. let's go. let's go meet for two seconds, okay? thanks. i'll see you in a little while. thanks. >> stahl: be careful. we were scheduled to take a walk with the president around the white house grounds. i've got a lot of questions i didn't ask. while we waited to see if the president was coming back, his press secretary, kayleigh mcenany, came in with a hand delivery.

>> kayleigh mcenany: lesley, the president wanted me to deliver his health care plan, it's a little heavy. >> stahl: oh my god. this is his health care plan? >> mcenany: yes. >> stahl: okay. kayleigh, thank you. >> mcenanay: you're welcome and the vice president will be with you shortly. >> stahl: okay. and the president's not coming back? >> mcenanay: the president's given you a lot of time. >> stahl: it was heavy. filled with executive orders, congressional initiatives, but no comprehensive health plan. >> vice president mike pence: hello, lesley. >> stahl: hi, mr. vice president. while our interview with the president did not go forward, the one scheduled with the vice president did. >> stahl: so what just happened with the president? >> vice president pence: lesley, president trump is a man who speaks his mind. i think it's one of the great strengths that he's had-- >> stahl: but he walked out- >> vice president pence: --as president of the united states, is that the american people always know where they stand. >> stahl: i'll buy that- >> vice president pence: and he's always ready. and the american people know that-- in this time, it's, it's- - it's less about the back and forth with the media, and it's-- it's really more about how we

bring this country all the way back. >> stahl: we then asked the vice president to put on his hat as the head of the white house coronavirus task force. dr. fauci. you know the president said that he's a disaster, and he and the- - other public health officials around him are idiots. do you care to comment on that? >> vice president pence: the scientists who've worked around the white house coronavirus task force, who will meet again today here at the white house-- have provided a great public service. they've-- >> stahl: so not idiots-- >> vice president pence: -- brought the perspective of scientists all along the way. and i have-- i have a strong relationship with dr. fauci and dr. birx but remember, the president of the united states has to consider the whole of america. the president's been balancing the broad interests of the country and the health of the american people, and we'll continue to do that every day. >> stahl: so let's say there's a

mother out there. let's say in a hot spot in wisconsin. and she's wondering whether she should send her children to school. now, what's your advice? >> vice president pence: lesley, we got to get our kids back in school. and i would say to that mother, or any mother, that we're gonna continue to work our hearts out to make sure that those schools have the testing, have the p.p.e., have the supplies they need to get our kids back where they belong, safe and sound, in the classroom. >> stahl: so are you saying she should send the kids back? should the kids wear masks? >> vice president pence: i think they should adhere to whatever criteria the school administrators and local health officials determine to be appropriate. but really, again, i want to say, the american academy of pediatricians made it clear early on that distance learning, this online learning, is no substitute for being in the classroom. >> stahl: what about thanksgiving? should people feel safe to get together with their family?

with their grandparents? with their aunts and uncles? >> vice president pence: thanksgiving is one of my favorite holidays. >> stahl: me too. >> vice president pence: and-- and i'm looking forward to it with our family. >> stahl: with a big-- with extended? >> vice president pence: i think that's a decision every american family can make based on the circumstances in their community, the vulnerability of particular family members. now, one of the things we apprehended early on is that seniors, particularly those with serious underlying health conditions, are the most at- risk-- for a serious outcome if they contract the coronavirus. and so w-- families may make a decision that-- that certain elderly family members might take a pass but i think the difference between president trump and me and some of the public voices in this debate over the last year has been we trust the american people. >> stahl: norah o'donnell talks with former vice president joe biden and his running mate senator kamala harris, when we

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uber and lyft are like every big guy i've ever brought down. prop 22 doesn't "help" their drivers-- it denies them benefits. 22 doesn't help women. it actually weakens sexual harassment laws, which are meant to protect them. uber and lyft aren't even required to investigate sexual harassment claims. i agree with the la times: no on 22. uber and lyft want all the power. so, show them the real power is you. vote no on prop 22.

( ticking ) >> norah o'donnell: when we spoke with joe biden this past week in wilmington, delaware, the former vice president was ahead in the polls, but confronting a withering final assault from president trump. as the presidential campaign enters its final full week, we also had questions for his running mate, california senator kamala harris. in our conversation, joe biden discussed how much he'd be influenced by progressives within his own party, whether his proposed tax increases would hurt the economy, and how he views the current state of the race. with less than two weeks to go before election day, you have

held a steady lead in the national and state polls, but so did hillary clinton four years ago. could donald trump still win this? >> joe biden: sure. i'm one of those folks, or competitors, it's not over till the bell rings. and i feel superstitious when i predict anything other than gonna be a hard fight. we feel good about where we are. but, you know, i-- i don't underestimate how he plays. >> o'donnell: what do you mean, you don't underestimate how he plays? >> joe biden: well, you know, there's an awful lot of talk out there about that-- trying to sort of delegitimize the election, all i think designed to make people wonder whether or not they should, whether it's worth going to vote. just the intimidation factor. but what really has pleased me is the overwhelming turnout in the states that have early voting. >> o'donnell: do you think there are a lot of people who are gonna vote for you simply because you're not donald trump? >> joe biden: well, i hope there's gonna be a lot of people

who vote for me because of who i am. but i think the contrast between donald trump and me is about as stark as it can get in terms of our value set and how we view the world. >> o'donnell: i was listening to one of your podcasts and you said we need some revolutionary, institutional changes. like what? >> joe biden: well, for example, i think we have to fundamentally change the way in which we deal with institutional racism. for example, one of the hardest things, beyond police issues, there's the issue of accumulation of wealth. there's an awful lot of black americans who are equally as-- they're as qualified as white americans based on the same status they're in, in terms of economic opportunity but they don't get a chance. so, for example, if we just made every corporation pay minimum 15% tax; you got 91 pay no tax. that raises over $400 billion. i can send every single qualified person to a four-year college in their state for $150 billion. i can make sure every single

person who qualifies community college can go and we still have a lot of money left over. that's what i mean by significant institutional changes. >> o'donnell: the non-partisan tax policy center and others have questioned whether joe biden's corporate minimum tax plan would raise as much money as he estimates. after our interview, mr. biden's staff told us he misspoke and that the cost of free public college could be twice as much as he said. the president made the case at the republican convention that your administration would be a trojan horse for liberals. that a.o.c., bernie sanders, elizabeth warren would actually be controlling policy, that this would become the most liberal administration in u.s. history. >> joe biden: he'd love to run against them, wouldn't he? mr. president, you're running against joe biden. joe biden has a deep, steep, and successful record over a long, long time. >> o'donnell: but joe biden's running mates' record is less widely known. kamala harris has represented california in the u.s. senate for almost four years.

you're very different in the policies that you've supported in the past. you're considered the most liberal united states senator. >> senator kamala harris: i-- somebody said that and it actually was mike pence on the debate stage. (laugh) but-- >> o'donnell: yeah. well, actually, the nonpartisan govtrack has rated you as the most liberal senator. you supported the green new deal, you supported medicare for all. you've supported legalizing marijuana. joe biden doesn't support those things. so are you gonna bring the policies, those progressive policies that you supported as senator, into a biden administration? >> kamala harris: what i will do, and i promise you this, and this is what joe wants me to do, this was part of our deal, i will always share with him my lived experience as it relates to any issue that we confront. and i promised joe that i will give him that perspective and always be honest with him. >> o'donnell: and is that a socialist or progressive perspective? >> kamala harris: (laugh) no.

no. it is the perspective of-- of a woman who grew up-- a black child in america, who was also a prosecutor, who also has a mother who arrived here at the age of 19 from india. who also, you know, likes hip hop. (laugh) like, what do you want to know? (laugh) >> o'donnell: well, i want to give you-- i want to give you the opportunity to address this because, at the republican national convention, president trump made the case that joe biden is gonna be nothing more than a trojan horse for socialist policies, for the left wing of the democratic party. are you going to push those policies when you're vice president of-- >> kamala harris: i am not-- >> o'donnell: --of the united states? >> kamala harris: --gonna be confined to donald trump's definition of who i or anybody else is. and i think america has learned that that would be a mistake. >> o'donnell: so just-- just to button that up, because you have fought for medicare for all. that's not something that joe biden supports. if you become vice president, would you say to a president

biden, "you know what? let's-- we should really be pushing for medicare for all, not a public option. that's just not gonna do it. that's not my value"? >> kamala harris: i would not have joined the ticket if i didn't support what joe was proposing. and so our plan includes expanding on everything that joe together with president obama created with the affordable care act. by contrast, you have donald trump, who's in court right now trying to get rid of a policy that brought health care to over 20 million people, including protecting people with preexisting conditions. and he's doing it in the middle of a pandemic that has killed over 215,000 americans. >> o'donnell: what do you think is the biggest domestic issue america faces? >> joe biden: right now, the biggest domestic issue is our health. right now, covid. covid, the way he's handling covid is just absolutely totally irresponsible. he's telling people that we've turned the bend, in one of his recent rallies. well, he's gone-- as my grandpop would say, he's gone 'round the

bend. i mean, we are in real trouble. >> o'donnell: mr. biden says he would spend up to $200 billion to make sure schools have the equipment and staff they need to re-open safely. he also says he'd make greater use of the defense production act to manufacture and distribute millions of testing kits for covid-19. >> joe biden: we should be investing a great deal more money in testing and tracing. a woman can go in and-- to a drugstore and buy a pregnancy test, and find out at home whether or not she's pregnant. we should be doing the same kind of investment to see whether we're gonna have testing kits for people to know. it's not enough to know in seven days or five days or three days whether or not you have covid. >> o'donnell: but congress did approve that money for the n.i.h. >> joe biden: no, that's my-- >> o'donnell: you're saying it's-- >> joe biden: --point, but it's not there. but they haven't done it. they haven't done it. >> o'donnell: people are worried about a national lockdown, and worried about jobs. the president's advisor now is dr. scott atlas. he is advocating young people go

about their business and older people sequester. >> joe biden: nobody thinks he makes any sense. nobody, no serious doc around the world. >> o'donnell: but how do you not lock down the economy? >> joe biden: you don't have to lock down the economy. it depends on the community. it depends on where it's real-- in real trouble. and you have to do things that make sense, that make it easier for people to avoid being exposed. freedom is about making sure that you care about the people you're around, that they be free too. it's a patriotism to put this mask on. >> o'donnell: let's talk about the economy. >> joe biden: yes. >> o'donnell: you are proposing several trillion dollars in new spending over the next decade for economic relief, education, health care. how are you gonna pay for that? >> joe biden: by righting the tax code. you got billionaires in this country making $700 billion during this crisis. $700 billion. >> trump: he wants to terminate the tax cuts that we gave you. >> o'donnell: the former vice

president has pledged to undo the trump tax cuts for corporations and wealthy americans. he'd raise the corporate tax rate from 21 to 28%. he'd also raise taxes on people making more than 400,000 dollars a year, and the top rate would be 39.6%. >> joe biden: nobody making less than $400,000 will pay a penny more in tax under my proposal. >> o'donnell: that's a promise? >> joe biden: that's a guarantee, a promise. i give you my word as a biden. that's an absolute guarantee. >> o'donnell: you think it's a good idea to raise taxes when the economy's in dire straits? >> joe biden: depending who you're raising them on. look, if you're raising them on somebody who's making $1 billion a year, it's not a problem that they pay 39.6%, which everybody should pay, raise another $90 billion. >> o'donnell: the president says that's gonna end up sending jobs overseas. >> joe biden: he's sending them overseas already. take a look at what's happened. we have a trade deficit that's larger with china than when we were there. >> o'donnell: actually, that depends on how you calculate it. the overall trade deficit with

china was slightly lower in 2019 than it was during the last three years of the obama administration. the biden and trump campaigns have been engaged in a running battle over who will be tougher on china. let's turn to foreign policy. what do you think is the biggest foreign threat that america faces? >> joe biden: our lack of standing in the world. look what he does. he embraces every dictator in sight, and he pokes his finger in the eye of all of our friends. and so what's happening now is you have-- you have the situation in korea where they have more lethal missiles and they have more capacity than they had before. >> o'donnell: north korea? >> joe biden: north korea. you have a situation in the gulf where you have iran closer to a nu-- having enough fissile material to get a nuclear weapon than they had before. you have our nato allies backing away from us because they say, "we can't count on," us. so he's moving away from what has allowed us to bring the world together

>> o'donnell: which country is the biggest threat to america? >> joe biden: well, i think the biggest threat to america right now in terms of breaking up our- - our security and our alliances is russia. secondly, i think that the biggest competitor is china. and depending on how we handle that will determine whether we're competitors or we end up being in a more serious competition relating to force. >> o'donnell: domestically, democrats have lost the competition to control the u.s. supreme court. >> trump: listen, who is on your list joe? >> o'donnell: mr. biden is under pressure from his own party to consider increasing the number of justices if elected. it's called court-packing, and while he's said he's no fan of the idea, he's never completely ruled it out. judge amy coney barrett is on track to become the ninth u.s. supreme court justice. that would give the conservatives a six-three majority. if elected, would you move to add more justices to the supreme court? >> joe biden: if elected, what i will do is i'll put together a

national commission of, bipartisan commission of scholars, constitutional scholars, democrats, republicans, liberal, conservative. and i will ask them to over 180 days come back to me with recommendations as to how to reform the court system because it's getting out of whack, the way in which it's being handled and it's not about court packing. there's a number of other things that our constitutional scholars have debated and i'd look to see what recommendations that commission might make. >> o'donnell: this is a live ball? >> joe biden: oh, it is a live ball. no, it is a live ball. we're gonna have to do that. and you're gonna find there's a lot of conservative constitutional scholars who are saying it as well. the last thing we need to do is turn the supreme court into just a political football, whoever has the most votes gets whatever they want. presidents come and go. supreme court justices stay for generations. i have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life... >> o'donnell: in the closing

days of the campaign, joe biden has been forced to address new and unverified claims that he was involved in his son hunter's foreign business dealings. the president's personal lawyer, rudy giuliani, says he came into possession of emails allegedly belonging to hunter biden and turned them over to the tabloid "new york post." >> trump: smoking gun emails. >> o'donnell: mr. trump and his allies have called for an investigation, but the f.b.i. would neither confirm nor deny to "60 minutes" that one was taking place. do you believe the recent leak of material allegedly from hunter's computer is part of a russian disinformation campaign? >> joe biden: from what i've read and know the intelligence community warned the president that giuliani was being fed disinformation from the russians. and we also know that putin is trying very hard to spread disinformation about joe biden. and so when you put the combination of russia, giuliani, the president, together, it's just what it is.

it's a smear campaign because he has nothing he wants to talk about. what is he running on? what is he running on? ( ticking ) >> o'donnell: we'll ask joe biden about his age and mental sharpness and ask senator harris what her role would be in a biden white house when we come back. ( ticking ) >> cbs sports presented by progressive insurance. >> holding off tennessee. feeling dangerous after leading the browns to a late victory. >> dominance over the raiders. and the falcons heart broken after losing last second. and a victorious return to foxboro. and a victorious return to foxboro. for highlights go to cbs got to hand it to you, jamie. hq.com. really paid off this time. nah, just got lucky.

so did the thompsons. that faulty wiring could've cost them a lot more than the mudroom. thankfully they bundled their motorcycle with their home and auto. they're protected 24/7. mm. what do you say? one more game of backgammon? [ chuckles ] not on your life. [ laughs ] ♪ when the lights go down [ laughs ] when she was diagnosed nwith stage 3 cancer.d after we got the news, i just remember being just so overcome. our whole lives had changed. we just decided we're gonna do what we have to do, and we'll deal with the bills later. we just need to save teig. we wound up getting coverage through the affordable care act. teig wouldn't be alive if we didn't have access to health care. when we first heard that trump was going to end the aca, we were completely dependent on the affordable care act. staring at, you know, bills and trying to make ends meet. i felt like it was a personal attack on our family. it's unbelievable that someone would want

to take away protection for preexisting conditions. for joe biden, health care is personal, just like it is for us. i'm voting for joe biden because i believe his concern for the people of this nation. i'm joe biden, and i approve this message.

but i can't say i expected this. because it was easy. to fight these fires, we need funding - plain and simple. for this crisis, and for the next one.

prop 15 closes tax loopholes so rich corporations pay their fair share of taxes. so firefighters like me, have what we need to do the job, and to do it right. the big corporations want to keep their tax loopholes. it's what they do. well, i do what i do. if you'ld like to help, join me and vote yes on prop 15. ( ticking ) >> o'donnell: on the campaign trail, president donald trump paints former vice president joe biden as an aging career politician and questions his mental acuity.

this past monday, in our conversation, mr. biden frankly discussed his age, his health, and why he believes kamala harris stands ready to become president, if necessary. if elected, you would be the oldest president in american history. >> joe biden: i'm in good shape. >> o'donnell: 78 years old. 82 after four years. donald trump says you have dementia and it's getting worse. >> joe biden: hey, the same guy who thought that the 911 attack was a 7-eleven attack. he's talking about dementia? all i can say to the american people is watch me, is see what i've done, is see what i'm gonna do. look at me. compare our physical and mental acuity. i'm happy to have that comparison. >> o'donnell: your age makes the choice of your vice president all the more important. why do you think senator harris would be ready to step in and become commander-in-chief if something were to happen to you? >> joe biden: number one: her values. number two: she is smart as a devil. number three: she has a backbone like a ramrod. number four: she is really

principled. and number five: she is-- has had significant experience in the largest state in the union, running a justice department that's only second in size to the united states justice department. and-- you know obviously i-- i hope that never becomes a question. >> o'donnell: kamala harris was the first woman and first black person to be district attorney of san francisco, and attorney general of california. and she's only the second black woman to serve in the united states senate. do you think having the first woman of color, the first woman, as vice president may change things? >> kamala harris: i do. it helps change the perception of who can do what because that is still part of the battle after all. and you imagine some young person then seeing, "oh, things can be different. i don't have to conform to whatever i'm-- you know, supposed to do or relegated to do. i can imagine what can be and be unburdened by what has been,"

you know? >> o'donnell: what kind of role do you think you would play in a biden administration? >> kamala harris: joe biden's partner. one of the first things he said was, "i want you to be the first person in the room and the last person in the room." >> o'donnell: how often do you and joe biden speak? >> kamala harris: almost every day. >> joe biden: your next vice president of the united states, kamala harris. >> o'donnell: from the moment joe biden selected her as his running-mate, senator harris has become one of president trump's favorite targets. >> trump: and she's not competent, she's not competent. >> o'donnell: on the campaign trail, president trump has attacked you frequently. he's called you a monster. he's said you're nasty and it would be an insult to our country if you became the first female president. do you see this as just the rough and tumble of politics, or do you view those attacks against you as racist? >> kamala harris: well, this is not the first time in my life i've been called names and it-- you know, it was predictable, sadly.

>> o'donnell: do you think the president is racist? >> kamala harris: yes, i do. (laugh) yeah, i do. you can look at a pattern that goes back to him questioning the identity of the first black president of the united states. you can look at charlottesville, when there were peaceful protesters, and on the other side, neo-nazis, and he talks about fine people on either side. calling mexicans rapists and criminals. his first order of business was to institute a muslim ban. it all speaks for itself. >> o'donnell: president trump has said he denounces racism and white supremacy. after the black lives matter protests that began this summer... >> trump: joe biden has surrendered his party to the flag burners, rioters. >> o'donnell: ...the president tried to frame the election as a choice between law and order, and biden and harris. there's a sense that there's a divide out there, that in order

to address systemic racism that it's anti-police, that you would not be a law and order president. >> joe biden: well, let me put it this way. number one: i've never, ever supported defunding police. matter of fact, we need to give more funding for police for different reasons. number two: any use of violence, burning down stores, smashing windows, that is a crime. people should be arrested. no justification for it. there's never been a conflict with me between law and order and dignity they're one and the same. >> o'donnell: the president said on the stump, "i saved the suburbs. you should-- you should thank me--" >> joe biden: he wouldn't know a suburb unless he took a wrong turn. go out in the suburbs now. it's not 1950. there are black and white families living next door to one another, driving each other's kids to soccer practice. this is a different world than he lives in. look, there's a lot of reasons people are upset. a lot of good reasons. all he wants to do is take that sort of subliminal fear out

there and say, "it's because-- 'cause of that guy, or because of that woman." that's not who we are as a country. i w-- i mean, this is not who we are. it's not our value system. you know, "we hold these truths to be self-evident." we've never met it. we've never met the standard, but we've always gone further and further and further towards inclusion. this is the first president who's trying to shut it down. we cannot sustain this democracy that way. we're so much better than this. ( ticking ) >> moments from our interviews with the candidates. >> the way he's handling covid is absolutely, totally irresponsible. >> we've done a good job, we've do maybe even a grea

( ticking ) >> stahl: i'm lesley stahl. we'll be back next week, with another edition of "60 minutes." >> hello! >> hello! >> hello. >> nice to see you. >> it's great to see you. >> mr. vice president, thank you so much. >> happy to be here. >> why do you want this job? why do you want to be president again? >> because we've done a great job and it's not finished yet. >> do you think there are a lot of people who are gonna vote for you simply because you're not donald trump? >> well, i hope there's gonna be a lot of people who vote for me because of who i am. >> can you characterize your supporters? >> people that love our country. >> if elected, you would be the oldest president in american

history. >> i'm in good shape. >> i think we have enough of an interview here, hope. okay? that's enough. let's go. captioning funded by cbs and ford. we go further, so you can. captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org oh, lord, not today. hey, calvin, greetings... from the future. goodbye... from the now. just checking out this sweet ride to make sure it's safe for grover. have you fallen on your ass yet? not yet. oh, well, then, looks like i have a few minutes. now, i always test out grover's toys before i give them to him. i've swallowed every size lego there is to make sure they're not a choking hazard. turns out, some of them are. dave, i got to get to work, so if you're gonna fall, you know, let's make it happen. well, actually, i'm starting to get the hang of this thing. it's a lot easier than it looks! whoa, whoa! dave, watch out!