what is the epa's expectation for that transition under this new rule? david: it's pretty aggressive. these rules start in 2027 and go through 2032 and by, you know, 2030, you would have at least 50% plug in hybrids and full electric vehicles under the various scenarios but as you said, they can, you know, pick from a mix of different options. hybrids, plug-ins, advanced gasoline vehicles, and unlike the initial proposal which had projected that there would be 60% all tv's 2030 and 67% tv's -- -- ev's by 2030, giving auto companies a break. geoff: the fact that these rules are being rolled out more slowly, companies have more choices in terms of how they can comply, toyota, which is the world's largest automaker, they were pretty forceful in their initial pushback. what was their argument? david: their argument was that plug-in hybrids can save the equivalent or more co2 because they have smaller batteries, they can be deployed across more vehicles as opposed to larger batteries for single vehicles and that argument i think have a lot of resonance with t